I accidentally deleted the database.  It is restored it but the topic and board references are jumbled up a bit.  I will fix it.  Nothing is actually lost but clicking on some other messages will not go to the referenced message until I fix it.

The database remains quirky.  I fixed some of it by hand.  I am creating a tool to manage the confusion, as doing the job manually is very error prone.  There is a lot of juggling.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 01, 2025, 03:10 PMThe database remains quirky.  I fixed some of it by hand.  I am creating a tool to manage the confusion, as doing the job manually is very error prone.  There is a lot of juggling.

In the modern world, what does a "quirky" database mean? Once upon a time when dinosaurs roamed the Earth I wrote basic DOS stuff, because it was cool. I began with Ashton Tate and dbase III programming on PCs. I migrated from there to Access 2.0 and underlying VB programming upon its introduction, and then inline programming in Access to Oracle serves, whereby I wrote SQL code (which looks just like dbase code), ran it inside of Access, to do whatever needed done with the Oracel tables, and to get around MS Access issues with file size and whatnot.

I can't recall my databases ever having decided to just....become unstable....just because. Is this a size limitation in some weird way that when violated decides to just start changing things for fun, surely the Diner can't be so large with mostly text stuff...if we were talking stored log raster rastor files I could see things getting big, but ASCII?

Code works generally until it hits some weird other limit, I get that, and I imagine the code sits on someone elses server, but are modern server rentals so shitty they can't run little websites and keep all the things pointed at the right stuff?

Isn't an instruction required somehow of some sort to begin a randomization process that can deep six all the internal connections?

Simple Machines Forum (SMF) is the database/forum software the Diner runs on.  It's a very old, open source piece of software that has evolved over the years as a HUGE number of independent developers contributed their time to create a variety of modules that increased its functionality as well as addressed a variety of security issues that have cropped up over the years.  Not all the modules are of equal quality because all the developers who added stuff weren't equally proficient, nor did they generally go through all the source code to look for places where one module might interfere with or trip over the code in another one.

As a result, the final product isn't always altogether stable, particularly if it gets interfered with from outside, as this one periodically does.  Sometimes this is the MIB poking around, sometimes the SMF folks issue updated versions, and sometimes Kdog himself who likes to tinker and tweak things makes a change which have unanticipated consequences.  The current version is v2.1.4

This version is pretty good , but it does have weaknesses I don't like, a major one is very old which is how threads get tied together.  They default to the topic of the OP as reference, and if that gets changed or disturbed later, it can orphan all the subsequent posts made in the thread.  They are still there, but they don't appear in the thread when you don't address it directly.

Anyhow, overall we don't lose too many postsand since Forums have gone out of style in favor of social media, there's nothing available FOR FREE that's better than SMF for running a forum.  It has a lot of functionality with levels and controls and for the most part operates quickly and has a good search engine.  It's not perfect though, so you gotta live with a few problems.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 02, 2025, 10:52 AMSimple Machines Forum (SMF) is the database/forum software the Diner runs on.  It's a very old, open source piece of software that has evolved over the years as a HUGE number of independent developers contributed their time to create a variety of modules that increased its functionality as well as addressed a variety of security issues that have cropped up over the years.  Not all the modules are of equal quality because all the developers who added stuff weren't equally proficient, nor did they generally go through all the source code to look for places where one module might interfere with or trip over the code in another one.

As a result, the final product isn't always altogether stable, particularly if it gets interfered with from outside, as this one periodically does.  Sometimes this is the MIB poking around, sometimes the SMF folks issue updated versions, and sometimes Kdog himself who likes to tinker and tweak things makes a change which have unanticipated consequences.  The current version is v2.1.4

This version is pretty good , but it does have weaknesses I don't like, a major one is very old which is how threads get tied together.  They default to the topic of the OP as reference, and if that gets changed or disturbed later, it can orphan all the subsequent posts made in the thread.  They are still there, but they don't appear in the thread when you don't address it directly.

Anyhow, overall we don't lose too many postsand since Forums have gone out of style in favor of social media, there's nothing available FOR FREE that's better than SMF for running a forum.  It has a lot of functionality with levels and controls and for the most part operates quickly and has a good search engine.  It's not perfect though, so you gotta live with a few problems.

RE

That is a very good explanation.  I have since made modifications to our version, and I did them in the right way to share as mods for others to download.  Quite a few hoops have to be jumped through do a mod right, but I learned how to do it.  Then I found out the people now behind SMF are a closed shop of total and complete assholes.  They are only letting mods happen at defined breakpoints, be that appropriate or not.  Fuck that. 

Our version is the most stable version, and there are no new plans to create a new release on the existing code base.  The SMF mofos are going object-oriented.  The upshot is from here on out the Diner rolls it's own.

We have the right to do anything we wish with our version and future modifications will be as custom as I desire.  As long as a backup exists everything is fine.  (not to be confused with a database backup).

And concerning the database, Comrade Simba has been restored, his old posts have been linked to his new identity.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 07, 2025, 06:34 PMThen I found out the people now behind SMF are a closed shop of total and complete assholes.  They are only letting mods happen at defined breakpoints, be that appropriate or not.  Fuck that. 

Have you ever met a group of folks you didn't think were complete assholes? You seem to be enraged quite a bit at...everyone...except for the teachings of what you've deduced as proper communist behavior....except for the part where you don't like where that shit show arrived in the form of Stalin and Mao and whatnot. 

Quote from: K-DogOur version is the most stable version, and there are no new plans to create a new release on the existing code base.  The SMF mofos are going object-oriented.  The upshot is from here on out the Diner rolls it's own.

Single point of failure internet stuff, always a good decision for longevity, but to be honest, was it ever going to end any other way?

A labor of love indeed, a requirement for something to survive far longer than it normally might. And having begun the disposal of my parents property and collectibles and their "labor of love" spanning some 80+ years, as tenuous as anything can be even when it is family involved in the final disposition.

I presume Mrs. K-Dog is hardly interested in keeping obsolete software functioning post Mr. K-Dog? Or is it in the will, a donation to pay other folk to keep obsolete software running for the 4 other geriatrics who hang out at the club?

Quote from: K-DogWe have the right to do anything we wish with our version and future modifications will be as custom as I desire.  As long as a backup exists everything is fine.  (not to be confused with a database backup).

An interesting distinction. As long as a backup exists...but don't confuse that with a database backup?

I certainly would make that mistake...how is a backup a backup....but the owner decides it sure doesn't need the database as well? My database backups are....backups. Lock, stock and barrel. Code, forms, instructions, documentation, tables, data, etc etc.

Are you implying that the code backup, of that which currently works, is a different backup than the data itself, rather than one big complete package?

Thanks for getting me back on board.
Meg - sheesh!

Quote from: TDoS on Feb 08, 2025, 07:13 AMAre you implying that the code backup, of that which currently works, is a different backup than the data itself, rather than one big complete package?

Data can be deleted or altered without any disruption of the code that runs the tables, search functions and I/O interface.  Conversely, code running the operation of the software can be deleted or altered without any of the data being disturbed.  Troubleshooting, one of the first things you need to do is determine which of these alternatives is the source of the problem.  The worst problems are when both data and control software are damaged.

When I managed the back end I paid extra to have my host take automated backups and tech support that  could find and fix code issues, which I have limited skills with.  Kdog is a code jockeey, so he does that stuff himself rather than pay for support.  The monthly fee for being able to message tech support when problems cropped up wasn't too bad.  I also tapped friends like Harry periodically to diagnose problems.  Whether you do it yourself or pay for it, you do it because it's a labor of love.

At some point SMF may become so antiquated it will be tough to keep it running.  If that's the case, it still would be possible to take the data and move to a new platform.  Cross that bridge if and when it comes.  In any case, the Diner is unlikely to last after Kdog and I kick the bucket, unless Monsta takes over at that time.

RE

QuoteHave you ever met a group of folks you didn't think were complete assholes?

Yes, you would not know that because you were not there.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 08, 2025, 02:07 PM

QuoteHave you ever met a group of folks you didn't think were complete assholes?

Yes, you would not know that because you were not there.

I thought it was obvious from my question that I didn't know. Hence the question.

So...where did all the non-assholes go? Facebook and Myspace and whatnot, all the cool kids got up and left the rest of us with....other geriatrics and software that without its own 24/7 maintenance is toast?

No wonder we keep talking about collapses that don't occur, turns out, we only see it because it is hapening to us!

I still maintain that for us geriatrics, personal doom is far closer than the MZBs overruning our rich white enclaves, nursing homes or the well fed middle class lifestyles of idle intellectuals.

Personal doom is a different subject.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 08, 2025, 05:46 PMPersonal doom is a different subject.

I'm not so sure. I think most doomers, not Planet X, Mayan Calendar types, but the more normie EcoCollapse or Global Warming or Peak Oil or BOE or even just Total Global Thermonuclear War types, some significant fraction are honestly just expressing fears of something else (like personal doom) and the non wackadoodle dooms are a good place to express themselves.

The normal doooms can be argued at the very least, as reasonable, they are open to discussion with others online without someone questioning about the the mind numbing fear you are suffering about your own mortality.

Of course, this isn't one of those out in the open things, the people most likely to follow this path are probably least likely to admit it. Probably because it is some form of psychological displacement, and because no one wants to admit it, it just stays invisible.

It strikes me that worrying about BOE killing me in 3 years according to Dr McPherson (or whatever timeframe he has moved his BOE to now) when I've got terminal cancer is a bit stupid, and far more important than whatever todays "weez all gonna die!" collapse/doom scheme is.

We're all geezers here, and just along for the ride at this point. Unlikely any of the normie dooms are going to get us before old age does. Short of a complete societal meltdown, one of those 0 to MZBs and Mad Max over the course of a summer. Although I'm also a fan of a decent GRB arriving.

Civilization collapses are very rare events, only occuring over millenia.  We know historically about a few, the Roman Empire, the Mayans, the Bronze Age.  Extinction Level Events are even more rare, only happening over millions of years.  Due to the advent of the internet, we are the first generation ever to be able to witness both occuring in real time.  We have the opportunity to view, document, discuss and analyze both.  I can't think of anything more interesting or more worthwhile to spend my time on.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 08, 2025, 07:00 PMCivilization collapses are very rare events, only occuring over millenia.  We know historically about a few, the Roman Empire, the Mayans, the Bronze Age.  Extinction Level Events are even more rare, only happening over millions of years.

Sure. But educated folks haven't pointed that out prior to A) world collapses within weeks or months because of peak oil (Jan Lunderg, Dr. McPherson, Colin Campbell) B) BOE causes extinction within a decade (Dr "can I grief counsel you young lass?" C) Global Thermonuclear war does it in days D) Yellowstone takes out US in a month, E) Permanent power blackouts by in 2008 leaving humanity in the dark (Duncan).

There generally weren't caveats for "well....while USUALLY civilizations fall across centuries....BUT OURS ARE BETTER!!"

You have to admit, having been around this at least as long as I have, that folks didn't fixate on centuries of collapse, but tomorrow afternoon collapse. You built the Diner which then demostrated exactly which claims were more popular. Jared Diamond is one of the few sources of long term thinking, and his work was referenced, but it was more as background information, no one contorted it into INSTA-DOOM!!! like the references above.

Quote from: REDue to the advent of the internet, we are the first generation ever to be able to witness both occuring in real time.  We have the opportunity to view, document, discuss and analyze both.  I can't think of anything more interesting or more worthwhile to spend my time on.
RE

Another way of configuring that perspective might be, your physical limitations require it of you. Your most interesting item is quite internet specific, and if you had more options, it might not be. Chasing tail and getting all tuned up seems to have been a popular pasttime of yours....sort of difficult to engage in those activities based on a particular physical reality.

So...your interest remains in what it CAN remain in. Fuck global collapse, I'm making sure the batteries are charged and ready to go for nice days on the motorcycles. Checking my current ammo supply for the summer's shooting up in the mountain rifle and pistol ranges, trying to figure out if this is a northern Grand Canyon and southern Utah summer, or a Oregon, Olympic Pennisula and maybe some air and space museums up K-Dogs way.

Watching a century long collapse process is entertainment and a continuing ad-hoc analytic study of the psychology of peak oil/doomers spanning the past half century. Idle hobby time because of a personal curiosity is about the gist of it. Because I am not limited to just what I am stuck picking a topic of personal interest from the internet.

 




Well, your interests on the internet have no bounds, but based on physical circumstances you have no alternative