The number of genes defining the subtleties we are discussing is in the hundreds.  But there are some which are very apparent.

BBC.COM • 2025-05-15

Williams Syndrome: The people who are too friendly

People with Williams Syndrome treat strangers as their new best friends. Now the condition is giving clues to our evolutionary past – and what makes us human.

A handful of genes are missing from one chromosome and the body has only the back up copy to code proteins with.  I'll guess that deletion of the missing section from both chromosomes is fatal.

These missing genes have a dramatic affect on behavior and mental capacity.  The article link is good at discussing the underlying biochemistry.  Genes that control social behavior go all the way back.  To before humans were human, and individual genes can control more than one thing in a morass of complexity.  It shows that our analysis here of stupidity being controlled by social genes is not far off.  Or is that just my point of view?

The boundaries and institutions of collapsing empires are well established.  Innovation and change which built an empire once welcomed traits in the early days are considered subversive dissent that challenges the existing. now moribund social arrangement and poser structure. Only compliance is rewarded in a dying empire.  The dying days of empire are days of yes men and sycophants.

And now our social genetics reward stupidity, and stupidity blossoms like flowers in a field.  At the exact time wisdom is needed, it is shunned.

Quote from: TDoS on Nov 26, 2025, 04:06 PMRE explained a topic in an interesting and understandable way. Was worth looking up and seeing how deep that rabbit hole could go, and when you get into all the combinations, the answer is...DEEP.

Glad it was helpful.  The topic is very deep indeed, and you have to be quite careful extrapolating too far based on what we know about genetics versus what we don't know.  Even scientists in  the field will convey the idea that because we worked out the genetic code carried on DNA, we have all thhe tools we need to work out how a given organism works, just a matter of time in identifying what code sequence is responsible for each phenotype.  Fact is , there is far more we don't know than what we do.

What we do know is that DNA  codes for different proteins, and these proteins serve either as catalysts for a metabolic pathway or as building blocks for the structure of the organism.  Which makes it possible to identify genes responsible for a variety of diseases and sometimes fix them.

Going much beyond this however is still shrouded in mystery.  There is little understanding of how genes code for the gross morphology of an organism, its body plan.  It always bothered me when I discussed it with Eric, and our bio teacher never gave me a satisfactory answer either.  I've also never been happy with the explanations for cell differentiation in different organs, nor with explanation of the organization of the brain by region.  Had I continued my study for a doctorate, this is where I would have focused my research.  The area of study is wide open to this day because it's so mysterious.  Nobel Prize material if you could work it out.

Anyhow, without an understanding of the gross structure to begin with, it's a mistake to go too far using genetics to explain how intelligence works and what traits can be ascribed to specific genes or sets of genes.  You  can however do pretty good statistical studies of populations to see how the numbers shake out, then work backwards to figure how many genes are involved and what's dominant or recessive.  Not much of that being done either, since most of the money is being spent on DNA research that has direct application in pharmaceutical drug synthesis.  That's where the money is.

RE

You look for an answer where none there is.  Living with ambiguity is hard.  A true master practices long to become comfortable with ambiguity.

Consider, that the stupid, unable to find answers for themselves do not know ambiguity at all.  They cannot balance a pencil on its point or consider the nuances of argument.  Nuance at all they cannot see.  Off to it they are turned.  Embracing contradiction and being comfortable with it is a skill that takes practice.  The stupid are too afraid of the empty void to experience contradiction as it is meant to be experienced.

You also have no fucking sense of humor.

Quote from: K-Dog on Nov 26, 2025, 06:35 AM

Quote from: TDoS on Nov 25, 2025, 05:48 PMAnd what type of test would you recommend to identify these types of people?

This should do it.

RE explained a topic in an interesting and understandable way. Was worth looking up and seeing how deep that rabbit hole could go, and when you get into all the combinations, the answer is...DEEP.

And when I ask about a test I get....Youtube wanting me to identify myself.....

I'm sure the video has a point.....you know...getting hits and likes or whatnot.....but the real question this generated in my mind is....did you provide a video because they can enunciate or explain said test far better than you can? I'll take the video as an answer of course....if you can vouch for them answering the question I asked.

Unfortuately, what usually happens with video links is the person doing the linking thinks there is a kernel of some sort in there...or maybe even some phrase of concept which answers ALL questions. Maybe it does...maybe it doesn't. Unfortunately, what usually happens with videos....someone likes one...and it becomes a catchall of some sort, and saves someone from having to do anything except wave at someone elses work and say..."Just watch this video and all will be revealed!".

Sort of like....THE BIBLE!!! A wonderful work of history, used by everyone to justify about everything. An advocate slings out a book and verse number, and uses it to prove a point. Or should I say, INTERPRETS it to make a point. And another Bible thumper can then sling out a book and verse contradicting the first..or INTERPRET it as contradicting the first. And then we found religions that fight and kill each other over he said/she said nonsense.

The internet and videos have sort of become like that. If you had kicked out some published research I could get my hands on, that has refernces and argument and logic all rolled up to make the point and can evaluated on its own, that would work! But videos....are....like modern....cartoons.....and while cartoons were usually pretty funny on Saturday morning...they sure weren't ever designed to be very....informative.

CHASINGTHESQUIRREL.COM • 2025-11-26

The Bottom

Alligator Alcatraz proposed for Utah.

I wrote the above here in the Diner using an enhanced toolbar which I just got working.  As it is part of a larger plan, nobody but I can see it for now.  It will be used to redo the comments editor that is below the article.  The version I just got working is only for writing articles on the main page.  Launched by a special button only members of an authors group can see.  I will be the only member of the group for a while as I get things working.  Since I just published on the Doomscroll I have to adapt the calendar which was below the comments button to use the new article system which is now part of the forum under the hood.  Then I can publish a new article with the calendar able to load previously published articles.  Until then I can only edit this article.

Quote from: TDoS on Nov 25, 2025, 05:48 PM

Quote from: K-Dog on Nov 25, 2025, 04:32 PMThe blind obedience gene is dominant.  For sure it is not recessive.

Couldn't find that as a specific gene either.

Quote from: K-DogIt works with the socialization gene to make morons of otherwise capable people.  Their other abilities, being in the normal range; let them pass easily.

And what type of test would you recommend to identify these types of people?

This should do it.

Quote from: TDoS on Nov 25, 2025, 05:42 PMFor starters, I liked the gene calculation explanation and went and looked up more about it prior to responding. Looking things up also revealed that a consequence and CFS gene look to be flyers, and when you ask AI about it what gets mentioned is an interaction between genetics and experience/environment. CFS seemed to also include/require a general intelligence and ability to learn. At best a "consequences gene" was attributed to combinations of others rather than its own thing.

It is in fact FAR more complex than I make it out to be using basic Genetics to explain the concept.  As you point out, predicting consequences is clearly connected to the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests.  The fact is that there are hundreds if not thousands of individual genes which have an impact on intelligence and we're only beginning to map out what they are and where they are located on the chromosomes.  Genes which fall close to one another are referred to as "linked" genes and often get inherited together.  Blond Hair & Blue Eyes are an example of linked genes.  There is a mechanism called crossing over where linked genes sometimes get split, complicating the inheritance picture.

As you note also, genetics (nature) only partially explains intelligence or CFS, education & experience (nurture) also factor in.  However, given both the condition of the education system and our society, it is unlikely nurture is improving on nature much these days.

Anyhow, I simplified both the concepts and the math involved in genetics and inheritance to make the concepts readable and understandable to people not familiar with biochemistry.  The general principle though is valid even though the 10% number I estimate for non-morons is just a WAG and intelligence is relative because all I can compare it against is my own.  Which makes the whole thing quite biased. lol.  A more reasonable number is probably 80% morons.  Still  large majority though.

RE

Quote from: K-Dog on Nov 25, 2025, 04:32 PMThe blind obedience gene is dominant.  For sure it is not recessive.

Couldn't find that as a specific gene either.

Quote from: K-DogIt works with the socialization gene to make morons of otherwise capable people.  Their other abilities, being in the normal range; let them pass easily.

And what type of test would you recommend to identify these types of people?

Quote from: RE on Nov 25, 2025, 11:55 AMAt the very least, these three factors control human thinking and behavior, and being on the right side of the moron/not moron divide requires all 3 be positive.

For starters, I liked the gene calculation explanation and went and looked up more about it prior to responding. Looking things up also revealed that a consequence and CFS gene look to be flyers, and when you ask AI about it what gets mentioned is an interaction between genetics and experience/environment. CFS seemed to also include/require a general intelligence and ability to learn. At best a "consequences gene" was attributed to combinations of others rather than its own thing.

Quote from: REIt's not really so clear cut  as a single gene for any of them, otherwise less than 1% of the population would not be morons.  However, my own personal lifetime cumulative study of all the people I have ever met indicates that a MINIMUM of 90% of the global population of homo sap are MORONS.  Besides the FSoA, my lifetime sample includes Brazilians, Australians, Brits, Frogs, Krauts, Vikings and a smattering of other countries.
QED. 😀
RE

However, jumping to the morons conclusion, 90% strikes me as a bit higher than I would have WAG'd myself. But as with experience, intelligence, and critical thinking being involved in CFS and consequences, I imagine such a number might also involve the attitude and expectations of the person making the estimate.

You are a smart guy, it isn't a surprise you would think most folks are morons.

The blind obedience gene is dominant.  For sure it is not recessive.  It works with the socialization gene to make morons of otherwise capable people.  Their other abilities, being in the normal range; let them pass easily.

You need the special glasses to see them.