Quote from: K-Dog on Apr 27, 2026, 07:09 PMDismissing "communism" as a failed utopian dream misses the essential point.

I didn't dismiss it that way. I just compared RE's perspective on it to the reality of it. Theory and practice are two different things.

Quote from: K-DogMarxism isn't an abstract wish list.  It is a materialist analysis of how society actually works. Your terrible outcomes weren't inherent to socialism itself, but were the consequences of specific historical circumstances and political errors.  Bureaucracy degenerated workers' power, and sabotaged the international workers revolution.  But that was then, and this is now.

Sure. And now the Communists have forced labor camps for the Uyghurs, are making sure that Hong Kong folks aren't so thrilled with their switch from capitalism to being ChiComs again, want to make sure that the capitalists in Taiwan, doing quite well for themselves, are brought to heel and properly....educated...and Tibet certainly understands that difference betweem being free or being...under someone elses bootheel.

China is certainly a long way from Mao killing off 10's of millions in food experiments, so in your mind are they "proper" socialists nowadays? The kind you would happily give up your 4 wheeled status symbols for?

Quote from: K-DogThe core socialist aims collective control over production to end class exploitation remain fundamentally sound, and are analytically necessary.

In theory. And if we are talking socialism like Scandanavian countries as compared to China and North Korea, I'd pick Scandanavia for sure.

Quote from: K-DogThe question isn't whether socialist goals are desirable (they are), but how can these goals be consciously achieved by the working class.  Using democratic means.  Avoiding the pitfalls and errors that lead to authoritarianism.

Having not asked a question, but just responded to RE and his enthusiasm for a particular socio-economic system, the results of which are already in the history books.

And I think we are currently in some form of mismanaged oligarchy more than anything else. And the oligarchs are going to do their best to keep it that way.