Quote from: K-Dog on Jul 05, 2026, 09:57 PMPops is not typical and 99% of people would not have dropped out to grow veggies and raise pigs. You still do not get it.

Of course get it. You make absolute statements...that aren't. I just happen to notice.

Quote from: K-DogPeople do not challenge that which contradicts their world view.

This I MIGHT agree with. For example, you do not challenge your world view of the MIB being after you, and therefore spammers must be the MIB. Pops DID challenge his world view of being a normal white collar professional type, to become a pig farmer in Missouri because he went for peak oil hook, line and sinker.

Quote from: K-DogPerhaps I am not being clear so I'll repeat that.  People do not challenge that which contradicts their world view.

Thank you for clearing that up. Telling someone black is white more than once is sure to convince them who are they to beleive, you, or their lying eyes.

Quote from: K-DogSome people are prone to conspiracies and seek them out.  That actually makes more my point than yours.

It depends. Lately, YOU have been making my point for me, I sort of figured that meant you were coming around.

Quote from: K-DogI am talking about people being convinced that the world works a certain way, and society reinforces the message.

THIS seems like a reasonable statement. Yes...I have no doubt people are convinced that the world works a certain way. And we all might think it works differently, your perspective versus mine for example. I can agree that society reinforces A message (different than THE message). The message society gives you and I have zero requirement of us thinking we got the same message. Different life experience, different innate capabilities, different mindsets from birth, different IQs, etc etc.

Quote from: K-DogIt becomes a core belief.

For SOME. Maybe for you. Maybe for me. Maybe we collected different core beliefs from the same message. Maybe one, or both of us, can see BEYOND whatever the message might be, and figure things out. I'll bet you would think that about yourself. Just as would I. You have your MIB proof. I have mine in peak oil.Fundamentally there is ZERO requirement we both develop a core belief, or ANY belief, fed to us by society. We have the ability to think....beyond. With ZERO requirement two educated and intelligent people arrive at the same conclusion. 

Quote from: K-DogJoe and Suzie Creamcheese may be the sons and daughters of lawyers from the other side of town.  They have never seen poverty up close.  They think the world is totally fair.  Poor people are only lazy.  'America follows the path of justice.' To them that statement is true and if they are presented with evidence that what they believe is not true, they will deny it with a passion they do not know they have.

You are lecturing to a true believer. I learned this from dealing with peak oilers, not Joe and Suzie next door. As you say, presented with evidence they believe is not true, they will deny it with a passion they do not know they have.

This characteristic works for the generally conspiratorial as well I might add.

Quote from: K-DogWhen a reader encounters a piece of evidence as concrete as this 1996 Independent article, they have a glimpse of the truth. However, a truth that is inherently "un-liveable" for most people. To acknowledge deep intrusion as a permanent, foundational fact of daily life requires them to fundamentally change how they engage with the state, technology, and their own feelings of safety.  And the fact is, they are not fucking going to do that.

Peak oil slots right into this example, circa 2000-2005. So I agree what you say is possible, including with people in general in terms of their view of the society they live in.

But I do have one comment. YOU don't have the lock on ALL perspectives. You might have a lock on J6P from your experience. Or the MIB. But your perspective isn't required to be mine just because you believe yours.

Quote from: K-DogAccess to the truth is not the bottleneck, the bottleneck is the capacity to endure truth.

Again, I agree. And peak oil proved it PERFECTLY. I provided access to as much truth as those doomers could handle. Not just some abstract truth, but scientific FACT. But because they believed, it must be true. To heck with BELIEF....they deny the basic precepts of SCIENCE itself.