Quote from: K-Dog on Aug 11, 2026, 04:22 PMNo, consider the black death in Europe's middle ages.  A lot of people died but the continuity of civilization continued so you can't call it collapse.

Again, definitions. We have been discussing the idea that a collapse can be claimed to be in progress as population decreases. Not some single country, but the species at large. Collapse has NOT been defined as ALL people dying, that is called "extinction".

During the Black death human population is estimated to have decreased from 450-500 million people to 350-375 million. I accept this as within the definition of a species population reduction of significant size to be a collapse. But obviously not an extinction.

Quote from: K-DogThe problem is that your thinking is logically flawed.

Always possible. But of the three of us, only one is making a living doing it.

Quote from: K-DogCollapse is when something existing (civilization) ceases to exist.  Collapse is the absence of what was.

Fine. If you want to define collapse as extinction, you can. I stipulate that a really, really, really bad collapse can be extinction. And when all of a species is gone, meeting this condition, it also fits within the definitions AI provides. 

AI Say:
Key Differences:

Species Collapse:Population numbers drop very fast.The group is in extreme danger.Animals or plants still live on Earth.Recovery is still possible with help.

Extinction:Zero living members remain anywhere. The loss is permanent. No breeding can happen.Recovery is impossible.

Population numbers drop in collapse, no population remaining = extinction. So AI says.

Quote from: K-DogAttempting to define something that does not exist is a logical can of worms.  Collapse does not exist.

See above. AI seems to have no problem understanding the difference.

Quote from: K-DogCollapse is when something existing ceases to exist, and defining what that something is means different things to different people.  There is a threshold problem.  Different strokes for different folks.  Our criteria varies.

Hence the use of a disinterested 3rd party.