Quote from: K-Dog on Aug 15, 2026, 04:33 PMTo deny collapse means denying human agency.

To deny collapse when it doesn't meet the definition is normal, expected, and called for.

You can no more call it something else and be taken seriously than if you multiply volts times amps and get Pi.

Quote from: K-DogCollapse in the Diner is always intimately connected to human stupidity.

The Diner, and people in general, can make up its own definition, obviously. Just like I can say that Pi=2.
Applying relative definitions to things though makes stuff messy.

Quote from: K-DogCollapse which could have, and should have, and would have been avoided if adults were in charge is the only collapse that is interesting.

I can agree with that. Species collapse on purpose and possible BECAUSE of the species themselves. Global thermonuclear war comes to mind. Climate change as well. But neither of those have triggered one yet, but they could most assuredly cause the required population reduction.

Quote from: K-DogActs of god are boring random and tragic.

And expected. But how can human induced collapse NOT be tragic as well? We don't own any secrets to the Universe that say us clever monkeys are immune for being stupid, tragic, ignorant, self centered and self destructive in  general. I would venture that humans are so flipping stupid they fall for nonsense, science denying hogwash that sounds good more often than they do scientific fact. Religion being a GREAT example, and peak oil being a smaller and more recent version.

Quote from: K-DogThings won't get interesting enough for TDOS until there is mass death.  But that is like only reading the end of a story.

Collapse isn't collapse without poulation decline. Sorry. But all KINDS of horrible things can happen without population decline/collapse. No one is going to call the Holodomor a good thing, or Pol Pot's stunts, or Mao's Great Chinese famine, etc etc.

Collapse is certainly collapse. It just hasn't happened yet. But there is always hope in the corner of the internet waiting with baited breath. The peak oilers have moved on, currently climate change has my vote for highest probability, with a more thorough cleansing GRB waiting in the wings, but timing unknown.