Quote from: RE on Oct 11, 2026, 12:07 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Oct 11, 2026, 11:53 AMWorks fine maybe for anything under Dunbar's number.

Wrong.  Dunbar's Number is ~150.

I know what Dunbar's number is. Duh.

Quote from: REPacific Northwest tribes were upwards of 1500 people, and their Polatch system served upwards of 250,000 for distributing resources among the tribes.
RE

And were as happily murdering their neighbors to take their lands as any happy go lucky Western Europeans were when they arrived on the East coast. I include the disposition of larger groups of folks to do all the bad social consequences  you are complaining about in modern society. Sure the modern scale is larger, and the social sub-divisions more extensive, but native Americans weren't busy living in peace when someone wanted someone elses land.
I love the resource stress claim myself. All the peak oilers thinking they were original with running outs and peaks and stuff. Resource stress is a nice way of saying we CAN'T sustain our people in a nice calm way, but rather want to be like those crazy proto-Americans and bumpm off those who have more! Basic humans behavior, creating haves and have nots.

That is the main beef with this entire "lets all be socialists like <fill in capitalists aiming for socialism or socialists who turn into communists etc etc) idea. Basic human behvaior.


How dare socialist like American Indians kill/maim/steal happily with their wonderful social harmony!! They sound like capitalists!

Crow Creek Massacre (c. 1325 CE): Located in South Dakota, this pre-Columbian site contains the remains of at least 486 individuals showing extensive signs of violent trauma, scalping, mutilation, and trophy-taking, pointing to severe inter-tribal conflict likely driven by resource stress.

I find the Central Americans more interesting though. You think the Mayans and slavery makes for good socialism ideals? All those uninfected by European ideas seemed to have invented it independent of those slimey European types.

How about debts among the Aztecs? Don't pay your bills...slavery for you! Sounds WORSE than capitalism, how did all those living in peace and harmony types ever invent this on their own?

My guess is this shit is because people be people. Once above Dunbars number there is no structure that doesn't involve winners and losers, one way or another.