Migrants

[K-Dog]

This will change everything.

The populations of the 'wealthy west' will be besieged.  They will be frightened, angry xenophobic.

They will elect psycho strongmen. Trumps and Hitlers, who have the 'strength' to do what's necessary. It will be brutal.

 Our societies will become brutal.

[RE]

My guess is that the populations of the 'wealthy west' will feel beseiged, frightened, and angry

They'll feel that way because that is what they will be.  You're not paranoid if people really ARE out to get you.

they will elect psychopathic strongmen

You think there will be elections?

Our societies will become brutal.

They already are.  Why do you think there are so many refugees from so many places?  The places they are running from have become too brutal for most people to survive.  Collapse works its way inward from the periphery to the center.  What is happening in Venezuela today will be in Mexico in 10 years and the FSoA 10 years after that.  More or less, I'm not guaranteeing the timeline.

RE

[K-Dog]

Here trust fund baby Fucker Carlson a cheerleader for elite privilege as the natural order of things.  Interviews Javier Milei the new President of Argentina.

Who is as smart as a rock.

This dumb fucker claims Argentina has been socialist for the last 100 years.

Right.



Draped in lush trees and surrounded by stately buildings, Buenos Aires' Plaza de Mayo might look like a place to check out monuments or stop for a relaxing rest. But each Thursday, one of Argentina's most famous public squares fills with women wearing white scarves and holding signs covered with names.

They are the Mothers and Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo, and they are there to bring attention to something that threw their lives into tragedy and chaos during the 1970s: the kidnapping of their children and grandchildren by Argentina's brutal military dictatorship.
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Javier Milei is a tool put in place by Argentinian billionaire Eduardo Eurnekian.  Eurnekian plugged the mop headed economist on his A24 media network as the cure for people he does not like.

The invisible hand of the market will now lead Argentina to peace and prosperity as the world runs out of stuff.  This is not a good plan.

Milei's Shock Therapy Already Leaves Investors Craving More

Anybody who advocates any kind of 'economic shock therapy' is a total idiot.  An idiot who thinks some lives are worth more than others.  Someone who is an adult child.

[K-Dog]

My guess is that the populations of the 'wealthy west' will feel beseiged, frightened, and angry

They'll feel that way because that is what they will be.  You're not paranoid if people really ARE out to get you.

On the surface that seems logical but I disagree.  That is MAGA thinking.  The migrants won't be 'out to get' anybody.  They will be people looking for a better life.  Saying migrants are 'out to get' anybody projects to a future state that does not currently exist.  It is an error in thinking.  Groups do not have a behavior.  Individuals in a group do.

From an individual point of view, behavior will be all over the board.  It always is.  Some people are out to get other people in our own society right now!  We often don't see them because a 'wolf is not at our door'.  We have enough stuff that people can worry about My Horse and Me    more than their next meal. When people get hungry for real, things will be different.  But that will have less to do with migrants than everybody who is already here letting their inner asshole come out.

There could be a nurse who will wipe your meat package bunghole trying to cross the Arizona desert right now to get to you.

That is an equally valid projection.

A valid projection is that their will be great suffering.

[RE]

Groups do not have a behavior.  Individuals in a group do.

Nonsense.  There are endless examples of group behavior, both in the animal kingdom and in homo sap.

What is the meaning of group behavior?
When in group settings, we are often influenced by the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors around us. Whether it is due to normative or informational social influence, groups have power to influence individuals. Another phenomenon of group conformity is groupthink.

Bees demonstrate group behavior when they swarm.  An individual bee can't swarm.  You need a bunch of them for this behavior to manifest itself.  Individual people don't riot.  You need a crowd for a riot.  Individuals get in fights.

Religions are fabulous examples of group behavior.  A bunch of people who all buy into the same set of beliefs acts much differently than individuals.  Perceived anonymity on the internet also produces behaviors different from individual face to face behavior where your identity can be acertained.

What are migrants out to get?  A better life, of course.  Question is how they perceive they will get such a better life, who promises them what they want to hear and who appears to stand in their way.  How a group of them will react to a group of MAGA protesters or a group of SWAT riot police carrying plexiglass shields and firing gas cannisters differs markedly from how all these groups will act individually or in different circumstances.

Will there be great suffering?  Depends if you think collapse is in progress or you think it won't arrive for another 50 years.  Anyhow, there has always been great suffering, so why worry, right?

RE

[Knarf]

Will there be great suffering?  Depends if you think collapse is in progress or you think it won't arrive for another 50 years.  Anyhow, there has always been great suffering, so why worry, right?

  The migrants are going to keep coming...more and more of them. If we as a society turn to authoritarian governance now, it is possible that our world will fracture. A dystopian 1984 scenario, but I see mass genocides also. Control our every move to keep us safe will be the meme of tomorrow if we can't integrate with each other with a large cost of living decrease.

[K-Dog]

Groups do not have a behavior.  Individuals in a group do.

Nonsense.  There are endless examples of group behavior, both in the animal kingdom and in homo sap.

What is the meaning of group behavior?
When in group settings, we are often influenced by the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors around us. Whether it is due to normative or informational social influence, groups have power to influence individuals. Another phenomenon of group conformity is groupthink.

RE

Semantically, a group may be no more than a collection of random things.  But that is not what we are talking about.  When we are talking about groups of people we are not doing math.

So.  People in a boat trying to find a new home do not a 'group' make. 

But that won't stop anyone ashore from defining refugees in a boat as members of any group that suits their American whim.

A group of terrorists, a group of Africans.  A group of fucking rice eaters.  A group of anything you wish.  But at the end of the day refugees are just people in a boat thrown together by circumstance trying to find a life.

Beware the assignment of groups where none exist.  A common language is a matter of circumstance.  That does not make a group.  Consider labels.  Rice Eater.  Is that a bad thing?  Of course not.  But a MAGA dude with an alcohol problem who can't get to work on time will call a 'group' of Asians who have smuggled themselves in by shipping container 'rice eaters' with racist intent.  He will add the fucking prefix.

A beginning of wisdom is to know that things may be called by wrong names.  When that happens thinking distorts.  Find the right name for a 'group' if you think you see one.  Remember you might be seeing something that actually does not exist.  Circumstance do not create groups.  Take care or group-think can suck you in.  Intelligence is not a vaccine against thinking like the herd.  Using intelligence is optional and emotions can prevail.

Winston's job in 1984 was to control language.  Orwell gave him that job for a reason.  Big Brother likes to control the names of things.

The names of things are gatekeepers of group membership when groups exist.  Codes to define who is in-group and who is out-group.  Who gets pie and who does not.

"Your soul takes on the colour of your thoughts" — Marcus Aurelius

So pick good colors.  Emotions can generate a lot of bad names for things.  Blurring colors and making them run together ugly.

[RE]

But at the end of the day refugees are just people in a boat thrown together by circumstance trying to find a life.

They may have arrived at that particular boat randomly, but they all have the same destination in mind, the FSoA.  They're all going to face the INS at the border and all going to try to get a court date for a residency hearing.  They'll all be looking for shelter, they're all afraid of deportation.  They all need water, food, warm clothing, shelter, money.

Of course they're all individuals, but they have characteristics in common and they're going to tend to react to things in similar ways.  They're going to be treated as a group by the system they are going into, herded onto buses and into refugee camps.  It's unavoidable in a mass migration of people of this sort.

RE

[K-Dog]

But at the end of the day refugees are just people in a boat thrown together by circumstance trying to find a life.

They may have arrived at that particular boat randomly, but they all have the same destination in mind, the FSoA.  They're all going to face the INS at the border and all going to try to get a court date for a residency hearing.  They'll all be looking for shelter, they're all afraid of deportation.  They all need water, food, warm clothing, shelter, money.

Of course they're all individuals, but they have characteristics in common and they're going to tend to react to things in similar ways.  They're going to be treated as a group by the system they are going into, herded onto buses and into refugee camps.  It's unavoidable in a mass migration of people of this sort.

RE

I only know one migrant who has applied for asylum at this time.  I would hook him up with a job if I could.  I see 3-4 new Russian speaking migrants at the store every day.  Obviously from the Ukraine, but they won't say so. 

All my neighbors except one are now ethnic Chinese.  The only politics they had to express to get here is to have the money.  Our neighborhood has been featured as the best place in America to move to in Beijing real estate advertisements.  The local drugstore and bank have all young Chinese women working for them.  As a policy that pisses me off, only a racist would wonder why.  One of them did a great job reinvesting my 401 K last month.

The Russians I see in the store are a group.  They have to express correct politics to get here no doubt.  No random collection there.  I suspect Anchorage is getting a share of that action.

[RE]

I only know one migrant who has applied for asylum at this time.  I would hook him up with a job if I could.  I see 3-4 new Russian speaking migrants at the store every day.  Obviously from the Ukraine but they won't say so.

These Russians are a group.  They have to express correct politics to get here no doubt.  No random collection there.  I suspect Anchorage is getting a share of that action.

I'm not out in the general population much, so I don't see anybody who isn't connected to the sick care industry in some way.  However, given we already have a fair size Ruskie population, new Russian emigres might come here if they have family here already.  However Ukrainians aren't Russians, though most do speak Russian in addition to Ukrainian.  I think most of the Russians here come from the eastern part of Russia, rather than the west.  I think Ukrainians head for NY mostly.

What we do have are a large number of Nurses, mainly from Africa.  Nigeria seems to be sending quite a few.  Phillipines as usual and Indonesia as well.

The southern border seems to be where the major influx is right now.  Ecuador, Honduras and Nicaragua in Central America, Venezuela, Colombia and Argentina in South America.  Mexico serves as a transit point for all of them.  Right now the Mex goobermint is trying to extort $20B from Biden to keep them on that side of the border.  Of course if he pays, next year they'll just ask for more so it's not a great long term solution.  It might get him through the election though.

RE

[K-Dog]

Of course if he pays, next year they'll just ask for more

Yes, but when they ask again, Trump will have to pay.

Fuck Trump

Migrants have been coming here legally for years.  I do not know what the current price tag is now, but when they moved in buying houses in the neighborhood satisfied their investment requirement.

[K-Dog]

Collapse will not give most migrants a second chance.

They could freeze to death in any North American christian city.

Global cooking will freeze millions.  When it gets down to the 20's and it still will, alcoholism will not be needed.  Poverty is enough.

[RE]

Migrants have been coming here legally for years.  I do not know what the current price tag is now, but when they moved in buying houses in the neighborhood satisfied their investment requirement.

I don't think the current demographic is composed of people who can afford to buy houses, particularly at the current inflated prices.  Most of them have a hard time putting together the $10K/person the human traffickers charge to get them across the border.

RE

[K-Dog]

Migrants have been coming here legally for years.  I do not know what the current price tag is now, but when they moved in buying houses in the neighborhood satisfied their investment requirement.

I don't think the current demographic is composed of people who can afford to buy houses, particularly at the current inflated prices.  Most of them have a hard time putting together the $10K/person the human traffickers charge to get them across the border.

RE

So we have two kinds of migrants.  The ones that will burn rubber to steal a parking space are fine, not even counted, but the ones who have to do a windshield wiper thing to get bus fare are criminals.

Seems we have money as our god.  Now it even defines right and wrong.

BINGO

* I see the pic has a copyright.  I wonder if the window washer got a piece of the action.  A picture worth  a copyright should have been worth a fiver to the washer at least.  Then again, a guy who would copyrighted this is likely the kind of dude who would stiff the washer.  And steal your parking space.

[K-Dog]

a hard time putting together the $10K/person the human traffickers charge

The guy I know from Africa who has applied for asylum was able to get across for $1500.  The trafficker he used must give Africans a discount.  I would. They have already traveled thousands of miles.