Capitalism creates an irreparable rift in the metabolism between humans and nature. The production of commodities alienates both the worker who creates a commodity and the earth, the source of all material from which commodities are made. Both the earth and the worker are degraded when exchange value breaks the connection between what is produced, and the process of production of what is produced. The essence of capitalism. The generation of surplus value.
Capitalism fuels the vicious circle principle laid out by Craig Dilworth. Both are circular and exploit resources. A cycle of commodity generation fuels new cycles of commodity generation, with profit adding to available capital to make capital grow. Growth is a natural result of the capitalist process, resulting from the generation of surplus value. Capitalist institutions become as large as they can as fast as they can to increase surplus value and profit. Increasing profit is what a capitalist cares about. There is no other concern than the generation of profit for appropriation by the capitalist.
As resources deplete from increased use, new capitalist ventures exploit substitute resources as capital moves to find new means to generate profit, and abandoning previous activity. Once money eats a resource, it moves on. Capitalism has no loyalty.
Many people in America consider themselves 'left' by various definitions. Many are deluded, these people do not know a defining characteristic of a leftist is someone who is anti-capitalist. The definition of left in America has been distorted, so criticism of capitalism became impossible. A consequence of being anti-capitalist, upon reflection, is to oppose exploitation of all kinds. In America, the definition has been degraded to include only those who oppose exploitation of some kinds. Whatever your personal flavor might be. Ask a random gaggle of American leftists what it means to be a leftist, and they won't be able to come up with a definition. 'Oh I think it is this.' 'Oh I think it is that.' Meaning, they are not leftist. It can't mean anything else. You can't just make up definitions, and if you don't know what something is, chances are you certainly are not whatever that thing is.
Capitalism continually generates surplus value by transforming use value into exchange value. The process disrupts social metabolism, creating a self-reinforcing capitalist class from a money trick surplus. The capitalist class became parasites who pushed production of commodities to planetary limits, and the meta-crisis is no more than the product of capitalism hitting the planetary limits to growth.
Industrial farming is not natural. The drive to maximize profit ruined natural metabolism, creating a dependency on fossil fuels that can't be sustained and which will lead to disaster when capitalism can no longer shift to a new resource to exploit. In America, 'the market' was reified into a conscious entity that works to everyone's benefit. Capitalism became a religion, and all alternatives to it became satanic blasphemy.
This is until substitution is no longer possible. Then people die. Unless social measures of success are changed. Indicators of well-being must replace the drive for profit with wages generated from economic activity distributed on a fair basis. With the basic needs of everyone being met. Seeking health and happiness must replace competition and the drive for money.
Family should endure, but large families must be taxed out of existence. We have the technology to not breed like rabbits, but most people have been doing exactly that for 100 years. Consequently human livestock, outweighs wild mammals and birds by a factor of ten. The human race is in overshoot. Large families have become a crime and a voluntary decrease in population by natural attrition must be embraced so human population can fall to a sustainable level.
This requires a new vision and a radical commitment to make it happen. It demands that the American conception of the virtues of capitalism be recognized as distorted reality. A product of propaganda sponsored and facilitated by greed centered around a money trick.
JT often gets the science wrong, but he know how capitalism screws things up. His explanation is just what I was saying. I must have it right.
But, does anybody wonder where the carbon sequestered by the Amazon goes? A mature forest is not a carbon sink. Contrary to internet pop science. A forest is a carbon resource at maximum capacity. If you want a forest to sequester wood you have to sustainably harvest the wood and do something like bury it in desert sands where in a few thousand years will become coal. Otherwise it rots as fast as it grows and the forest is net zero.
And no the world does not suddenly become a garden of Eden with capitalism gone. You can't agree with the sixth mass extinction, and also pretend the problem is not too many humans. It does not work that way.
I think the plan with the Amazon is to reintroduce forest to the parts of t that have been burned down to make way for cattle ranching. Overall with reforestng the idea is to taake areas that used to have forest and regrow it. Once fully grown though, you are correct, it stops sequestering further carbon though.
Insofar as it rotting after harvest, you can slow that process down considerably by treating the wood with linseed oil. Then build stuff with it. It will though eventually give the carbon back up into the food chain, so the only way to truly sequester permanently is by converting it to a form that other organisms can't eat. Usually that happens by geological process as they get buried under layers of strata. It could however be speeded up by subjecting the wood to heat and pressure. You would of course need to do that using a solar heated device and generate the pressure without usinng a fossil fuel powered device. Not aware of this being done anywhere though.
RE
Good opening post K-Dog. When it comes to terms like left or right-wing a lot of it is relative. What seems left today was more central previously and any opposition towards capitalism died when the Soviet Union collapsed. These days, despite its massive shortcomings, the belief in the overall system is high. It is due to this faith that when people make criticisms it often directed at either corrupt politicians, power hungry corporations or some hidden "elite" that are the cause of these problems. In short, we have a management/leadership problem and not a systemic one.
The issue here is even if we got rid of all those bad politicians, brought big corp to heel AND got the guillotine out to kill the elite (who have addresses) this wouldn't be enough to solve things. The system itself needs to be changed. Problem is most people are wedded to capitalism and will not criticise it.
Moreover, the vast majority of people still believe the narrative that our ingenuity and technology will find a solution to any problem. Global warming and resource depletion are just temporary roadblocks to our inevitable progress to that Star Trek future. To get this future and make America great again we just need the right people to direct things and everything will be okay.
Quote from: RE on Feb 10, 2024, 02:35 AMI think the plan with the Amazon is to reintroduce forest to the parts that have been burned down to make way for cattle ranching.
Yes that is the plan of every armchair ecologist north of the Gulf of Mexico. All ten million. The rest watch football and give no shit. About anyone in the Amazon having this plan. You are kidding right? I hope so since that plan won't work after the hydraulic cycle beaks. The area only gets grassland rainfall once the forest is gone. With no way to get the forest growing rainfall back without the forest.
QuoteInsofar as it rotting after harvest, you can slow that process down considerably by treating the wood with linseed oil.
Cutting down a forest to grow linseed oil to preserve the other forests is against the rules. The point of putting wood under the sands of the Sahara will not be to dig it up later. Burying wood is only a thought experiment that simply demonstrates that most people don't know what the fuck they are talking about. The amazon stopped sequestering carbon thirty million years ago when it grew for the first time.
Other ways extreme infection by capitalism make people not know what they are talking about.
The herd thinks we can't have electric cars unless we use lithium because an electric car has to 'compete' against ICE cars in DE MARKETPLACE! And win. Something that has to be charged every hundred miles and can only go fifty miles an hour could get people to and from work, and back and forth to grocery stores.
But fuck that, and the long term stability of society. We want sexy and temporary followed by death. The sheeple have voted. They voted exactly the way they were programmed to vote, and they don't even know it was not their free choice to vote the way they did. As evidenced by the fact stupidity still rules the day. That is worth a high-five all by itself. And oh my fucking god. We couldn't make bio-char and plow it into farm fields conditioned with shit to make crops grow. Replenishing the soil. That idea is simply not sexy enough. We have to pretend piping CO2 into the ground would work without it coming back up instead. In complete denial of metabolic balance.
Current events weather-wise have made it necessary to repackage denial, but as the social lubricant that keeps things going, count on it being around for a long time.
Quote from: monsta666 on Feb 10, 2024, 06:25 AMWhen it comes to terms like left or right-wing a lot of it is relative. ---- These days, despite its massive shortcomings, the belief in the overall system is high.
Yes, and that is the definition of conservatism. And I'll add. Contrary to popular belief, a persons sexual preference does not make them right or left.
QuoteIt is due to this faith that when people make criticisms it often directed at either corrupt politicians, power hungry corporations or some hidden "elite" that are the cause of these problems. In short, we have a management/leadership problem and not a systemic one.
Great observation, I think this rhymes with that definition of insanity about doing the same thing over and over again, always expecting a different result.
QuoteThe issue here is even if we got rid of all those bad politicians, brought big corp to heel AND got the guillotine out to kill the elite (who have addresses) this wouldn't be enough to solve things.
But it would give RE something to do.
QuoteMoreover, the vast majority of people still believe the narrative that our ingenuity and technology will find a solution to any problem. Global warming and resource depletion are just temporary roadblocks to our inevitable progress to that Star Trek future. To get this future and make America great again we just need the right people to direct things and everything will be okay.
Yes, I was forced to learn math so the binary yes no conclusion that everything will work out and that we have temporary roadblocks does not work for me. I did not eat enough lead base paint chips when I was a kid so I did not get slowed down enough like everyone else in my generation did. I became a freak. I have know about the limits to growth since it was published.
The world is hollow and I have touched the sky.
Quote from: monsta666 on Feb 10, 2024, 06:25 AMThe issue here is even if we got rid of all those bad politicians, brought big corp to heel AND got the guillotine out to kill the elite (who have addresses) this wouldn't be enough to solve things. The system itself needs to be changed. Problem is most people are wedded to capitalism and will not criticise it.
Definitely it's a systemic problem of Capitalism, so simply Guillotining individual successful Capitalist (the "elite") won't work. They'll just be replaced by new capitalists. So you need to make Capitalism itself a Capital crime, and Guillotine anyone who practices capitalism. :) That solves the problem on a systemic level. I guarantee most people will renounce Capitalism if they know their head will be chopped off if they are caught.
Problem solved.
RE
Ecological imperialism doncha know.
Jump ahead to 31:30
Reasonable and correct content that will be ignored by almost everyone.
Quote from: K-Dog on May 25, 2024, 01:52 PMReasonable and correct content that will be ignored by almost everyone.
The title has the C-word in it. That
GUARANTEES it will be ignored by every good, patriotic Amerikan konsumer of YT vids.
RE
Quote from: RE on May 25, 2024, 02:15 PMQuote from: K-Dog on May 25, 2024, 01:52 PMReasonable and correct content that will be ignored by almost everyone.
The title has the C-word in it. That GUARANTEES it will be ignored by every good, patriotic Amerikan konsumer of YT vids.
RE
Not ignored by the men in black, they are downloading everything we have right now.
Fifty bots for twenty four hours monitoring everything we have, watching for changes. If they paid us a nickel for ever visit we would be rich. I am tempted to take the website down just to make them go away.
But: what would be the point. It might even bring on another GANG STALKING incident.
AND:
There is no point because they will be back as soon as I put it back on line.
Seriously, at this point RE and I would each take a few hundred thousand to stay off the web. When I was GANG STALKED the wages PAID TO PEOPLE DRAFTED FROM FEDERAL AGENCIES to follow me around was more than I make in a year for sure. RE and I both know most people are brain dead stupid, and Americans will walk off a cliff like lemmings before they will do anything to remedy the unsustainable situation. So really uncle. Stop with the bots, and pay us to go away.
Medicaid would take it all away as long as I stay in this place. I'd need enough to buy a Doomstead plus pay a CNA from a Private Pay agency to come in and assist as necessary. So probably like $1M tax-free would be minimum.
I think they like monitoring us so they can have a better understanding of collapse for themselves. We're probably considered the Top Experts in the world in the field of Collapse Theory by the Illuminati. ;D I know I've written the equivalent of at least 5 dissertations on various sub-specialties, Economics, Anthropology, History, Psychology and Sociology.
Like Tom Lehrer, we're Geniuses who remain in obscurity to most of the population, but other geniuses find us and keep track of what we write. Many of them unfortunately are Evil Geniuses who use our analysis for nefarious purposes, but that can't be helped.
True, pure Geniuses like us don't work for money or recognition, we do it as part of the search for Eternal Truth so that we will ascend to Nirvana and Perfection, ultimately achieving Godhood.
Besides that we will receive an infinite supply of Virgins who want to live out kinky fantasies daily for eternity. What's a measly few $100K of Toilet Paper compared to that? lol.
RE
Quote from: K-Dog on May 25, 2024, 01:52 PMNot ignored by the men in black, they are downloading everything we have right now.
Why? 5 posts a day by known individuals? This place doesn't have anyone who knows anything of value, we're geriatrics across the board, some of whom don't even have all their limbs, NONE of whom talk about or are physically capable of going all RAMBO somehow. Why do we think that anything any of us 4 geriatrics say is important enough to give a rat's ass about?
Its like we are 4 fleas, thinking we own the lion.
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 11:37 AMI think they like monitoring us so they can have a better understanding of collapse for themselves.
What, they are too stupid to read Jared Diamond's work for themselves? Missed dieoff.org when it came out of the gate before any Diner came along? Do we think they were suckered by Matt Savinars sheer genius, his stuff got quoted in Congress....anything from the Diner ever get that far?
Quote from: REWe're probably considered the Top Experts in the world in the field of Collapse Theory by the Illuminati. ;D I know I've written the equivalent of at least 5 dissertations on various sub-specialties, Economics, Anthropology, History, Psychology and Sociology.
Seriously? Are you referring to the YouTube videos posted over the years?
Well, you would have to as the guys doing the D/L the WHY question, but since they clearly do it on a regular basis they obviously have their own reasons for doing it. Since it's unlikely the are afraid of us, the alternative is they are learning from us. ;D
RE
Quote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 03:41 PMQuote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 11:37 AMI think they like monitoring us so they can have a better understanding of collapse for themselves.
What, they are too stupid to read Jared Diamond's work for themselves? Missed dieoff.org when it came out of the gate before any Diner came along? Do we think they were suckered by Matt Savinars sheer genius, his stuff got quoted in Congress....anything from the Diner ever get that far?
All pikers and 2nd rate compared to the sheer genius on the Diner.!
QuoteQuote from: REWe're probably considered the Top Experts in the world in the field of Collapse Theory by the Illuminati. ;D I know I've written the equivalent of at least 5 dissertations on various sub-specialties, Economics, Anthropology, History, Psychology and Sociology.
Seriously? Are you referring to the YouTube videos posted over the years?
They also have access to all the material stored on A Small Orange. That was all copied to the NSA and Google databases over the years.
RE
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 03:46 PMWell, you would have to as the guys doing the D/L the WHY question, but since they clearly do it on a regular basis they obviously have their own reasons for doing it. Since it's unlikely the are afraid of us, the alternative is they are learning from us. ;D
RE
Why is it that other doomer type sites don't ever say anything about this kind of activity going on? They have larger audiences, spew doomer topics far wider and more prolificly than anything diner or reddit or squirrel place has ever done, have credible authors and writers compared to just folks BSing on the topic, etc etc. Afraid of this place unlikely, and no, learning from what is presented here isn't a likely alternative explanation.
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 03:50 PMAll pikers and 2nd rate compared to the sheer genius on the Diner.!
You get quoted on the floor of Congress and we'll talk. Otherwise a lawyer who can't even work up to successful ambulance chaser who made the career move to astrologer/palm reader and later part time substitute elementary school teacher has you beat.
QuoteQuoteSeriously? Are you referring to the YouTube videos posted over the years?
They also have access to all the material stored on A Small Orange. That was all copied to the NSA and Google databases over the years.
RE
All internet stuff is copied somewhere by someone...K-Dog doesn't appear to be indicating that this is just that run of the mill kind of thing. This place doesn't even kick out enough material to need more than a nano-second of downloading material on a fast connection.
Quote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 04:00 PMWhy is it that other doomer type sites don't ever say anything about this kind of activity going on?
Probably because the analysis isn'tt as creative and original. ;D
RE
True Genius is never recognized in your own lifetime. 8)
RE
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 04:12 PMQuote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 04:00 PMWhy is it that other doomer type sites don't ever say anything about this kind of activity going on?
Probably because the analysis isn'tt as creative and original. ;D
RE
Or they don't know it is happening. Or it isn't happening to them. Or it isn't the men in black doing it, but discerning readers wanting to warehouse it for posterity and the main doomer sites don't mind their work being memorialized by other doomer folks?
As far as creative and original....can you name an idea of yours that qualifies that someone else hasn't hypothesized first?
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 04:16 PMTrue Genius is never recognized in your own lifetime. 8)
Tell it to Einstein and Oppenheimer. Marie Curie. Newton? Darwin? Tesla? Galileo?
Yeah, TRUE genius seems to be recognized in ones lifetime. As far as puddknockers and wanna-be's....well....I imagine your idea is what the puddknockers and wanna-bes are hoping....
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 03:46 PMWell, you would have to as the guys doing the D/L the WHY question, but since they clearly do it on a regular basis they obviously have their own reasons for doing it. Since it's unlikely the are afraid of us, the alternative is they are learning from us. ;D
RE
We
Quote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 03:46 PMWell, you would have to as the guys doing the D/L the WHY question, but since they clearly do it on a regular basis they obviously have their own reasons for doing it. Since it's unlikely the are afraid of us, the alternative is they are learning from us. ;D
RE
QuoteThis place doesn't have anyone who knows anything of value.
TDOS saying that we are unknown and unremarkable. That is his truth. His truth denies reality because the obvious surveillance of this website screams otherwise. This website does not deny reality. Currently we have web address 2a03:2880:16ff:1::face:b00c looking at 33 different posts. 'They' are not reading posts to tell us we have done a good job.
Content did not get modified on this website in the past to put the fear of god in me all by itself. There have been targeted threats through the years. I have been gang-stalked. Veiled threats have been made suggesting my family could be hurt.
Making a recording of a conversation you have with a family member using your phone as a bug, and then showing snippets of that conversation back to you later embedded in other correspondence is a very effective veiled threat which works on a lot of people. Likely most people I am sure. But the intent of those threats was so obvious to me that I could not take the threats seriously. I doubt a family member would be 'taken out' before I am 'taken out'. And once I am 'taken out', there is no reason to hurt my family.
Logic told me it made no sense, but if I was stuck on myself I might think myself important enough to be treated in such a way. I'm not a narcissist, so I did not take their psychological bait and go off the emotional deep end as 'they' intended for me to do.
I have been surveilled for forty years. The unusual thing about that is this info was leaked to me by mistake? One day I am asked about a communist bookstore that closed over twenty years ago by someone out of the blue who I already had reason to be suspicious of. Someone who should not and could not possibly have known I visited the bookstore unless 'they' had a crystal ball that could see twenty years into the past. When I found how long my ass has been watched I was angry.
I might have an pamphlet somewhere I bought at the bookstore on my bookshelf stashed somewhere in a box. The pamphlet is about sugar and the Cuban economy.
Web address 2a03:2880:16ff:1::face:b00c is looking at 33 different posts. Perhaps 'they' are looking for changes that could be used for communication by bad actors who do not want to be identified using normal communication channels. But I don't give a fuck about speculation. What matters is I have been personally fucked with, and threats have been made.
Hence my behavior will be appropriate to the situation. There is nothing else for me to figure out.
Quote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 07:14 PMAs far as creative and original....can you name an idea of yours that qualifies that someone else hasn't hypothesized first?
Yes.
RE
Quote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 07:24 PMQuote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 04:16 PMTrue Genius is never recognized in your own lifetime. 8)
Tell it to Einstein and Oppenheimer. Marie Curie. Newton? Darwin? Tesla? Galileo?
Oppenheimer wasn't a genius. He was a good manager of geniuses. The others, geniuses, and some do get recognized in their lifetimes. It's not a perfect correlation,
RE
Quote from: K-Dog on May 27, 2024, 11:26 PMTDOS saying that we are unknown and unremarkable.
Well, not sure I said it, but I did imply it.
Quote from: k-DogThat is his truth.
More like a thorough observation of reality, posting activity, active users, etc etc.
I don't know what "truth" might be, ask a religious person?
Quote from: K-Dog'They' are not reading posts to tell us we have done a good job.
Maybe they aren't reading posts but just archiving stuff on the internet? Good bad or otherwise. And define what you even mean by "good job"?
Quote from: K-DogI have been gang-stalked. Veiled threats have been made suggesting my family could be hurt.
I have been gang stalked. Haniel and RE for example. What is a "veiled threat"? And if you took it seriously, and considering the power of the people you think are behind it, was it so scary that you modified your behavior? Or just kept happily doing the same thing...demonstrating that any claim of serious threat would seem to be suspect.
Quote from: K-DogMaking a recording of a conversation you have with a family member using your phone as a bug, and then showing snippets of that conversation back to you later embedded in other correspondence is a very effective veiled threat which works on a lot of people. Likely most people I am sure. But the intent of those threats was so obvious to me that I could not take the threats seriously. I doubt a family member would be 'taken out' before I am 'taken out'. And once I am 'taken out', there is no reason to hurt my family.
Well good for you then, not taking threats seriously. I did the same with what Haniel and RE and Surly were doing, I mean really, as you and I have both seemed to indicate, can you take threats seriously from people who themselves don't appear to be serious?
Quote from: K-DogHence my behavior will be appropriate to the situation. There is nothing else for me to figure out.
Sounds like you aren't worried about it in the least then. You sure this isn't just some amateur hour computer geeks playing secret agent like Haniel and RE were doing to me?
Quote from: RE on May 28, 2024, 01:58 AMQuote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 07:14 PMAs far as creative and original....can you name an idea of yours that qualifies that someone else hasn't hypothesized first?
Yes.
RE
Oh NOW I'm curious. Did you write one of your many dissertations on it, or is it written in invisible ink on a blank sheet of paper in your headstone?
Quote from: RE on May 28, 2024, 02:09 AMQuote from: TDoS on May 27, 2024, 07:24 PMQuote from: RE on May 27, 2024, 04:16 PMTrue Genius is never recognized in your own lifetime. 8)
Tell it to Einstein and Oppenheimer. Marie Curie. Newton? Darwin? Tesla? Galileo?
Oppenheimer wasn't a genius.
Tell it to his non Manhattan project accomplishments.
What about J. Robert Oppenheimer as a scientist stands out after all these years? Mark Paris, a theoretical physicist at Los Alamos, takes a look at some of the high points in a column for Physics Today, tracing Oppenheimer's important contributions to the emergence of quantum theory. Oppenheimer achieved influential work in the spectral properties of molecules, offered an understanding of cosmic rays and neutron stars, and predicted what would come to be called "black holes." Much of that work came while founding the leading school of theoretical physics in America.Let me guess..you fault him because he didn't go to the right high schule where the cool kids all went? ;D
The answer to the title question is "No", but Saito does get a feature article in The Atlantic. Going Mainstream!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/kohei-saito-degrowth-communism/678481/
Is America Ready for 'Degrowth Communism'?
RE