I thought we were running out of affordable fossil fuels and bad stuff was supposed to happen. Are we there yet?
Quote from: ed_from on Jul 31, 2023, 09:11 PMI thought we were running out of affordable fossil fuels and bad stuff was supposed to happen. Are we there yet?
Considering that I once bought gas for 17 cents a gallon in a gas war and getting to and from work now sucks up about an hour of the work shift, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
Youth has nothing to compare the present to. The frog not noticing they are being boiled to death is an accurate portrayal of society. Scenic vistas once destroyed are forgotten.
Old farts sayin -- Son I remember when.....
Don't get remembered.
The better question is how long ago did the bad stuff start?
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs.hdnux.com%2Fphotos%2F67%2F71%2F75%2F14655322%2F3%2F1200x0.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=2e75d91ed9912b4a885084ca919c267da8b00096bc14f75b8588c4cda6247b70&ipo=images)
Quote from: K-Dog on Aug 01, 2023, 12:37 AMThe better question is how long ago did the bad stuff start?
It was well underway by the time they paved paradise to put up a parking lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2595abcvh2M
RE
You could trace it back a little further though. Breathing in Victorian era London was pretty unpleasant.
(https://images.theconversation.com/files/194345/original/file-20171113-27579-jiytkp.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1200&h=675.0&fit=crop)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/1708e027e846f74f937e4211e70086b89e50cd07/0_852_4683_2809/master/4683.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=9bb8a38bd36444f3a75303e898f284c0)
RE
If we try and go back too far we defeat our purpose.
Doom is a fact of life. No matter how far back we go we find doom. So why have the Doomstead if doom is just a fact of life!?
Because the kind of doom we concern ourselves with here has human roots. Climate change, resource depletion. These are problems that humans caused themselves. Doom as the result of human action or INACTION is our primary concern, though decent material concerning doom in general is welcome.
Breathing in Victorian era London was pretty unpleasant. certainly qualifies as human caused.
QuoteAs soon as I escaped from the oppressive atmosphere of the city, and from that awful odour of reeking kitchens which, when in use, pour forth a ruinous mess of steam and soot, I perceived at once that my health was mending... So I am my old self again, feeling now no wavering languor in my system, and no sluggishness in my brain.
Seneca AD 64-65The point being to save as many as you can.
Doom is a human construct. All species degrade the environment but, due to our use of tools and, eventually, our use of ancient sunlight, humans have managed to bypass, for the moment, all ecosystem controls which usually keep species in check. The consequences are plain but, eventually, nature and physics will reimpose controls.
Quote from: Tonyprep on Aug 01, 2023, 03:30 PMAll species degrade the environment
That is a very specious argument. All living things use energy to grow and they create waste in the process, but the waste product of one life form provides the energy and or building blocks for another. Worms digest human waste, worm shit feeds plants, the waste product of photosynthesis is free oxygen which serves as the electron reciver for the krebs cycle which produces ATP which provides chemical energy for animals...round and round she goes. It's a constant dissipative cycle that runs as long as the sun keeps providing the right amount of energy for the system to run, not too much or too little.
Homo Sap fit right in to this whole system quite well until we learned to control fire and began consuming copious amounts of energy faster than the sun regenerated it. First we burned whole forests, then we moved on to the fossil fuels. That was when the degradation began.
RE
QuoteAll species degrade the environment
I don't mean to pick on you Tony P. But I have to say that I learned that is not true last week. I have been into You-Tubes about the ancient past.
I learned some things about insect evolution.
Before insects decay could not keep up with plant growth, and the world swung between snowball earths when ice miles thick covered all land and when land was all backing desert. No decay meant CO2 was depleted and global temperature went below freezing. New volcanic activity then would bring new CO2,and the earth became baking desert until plants cooled things down to make a brief paradise. But the plants could not decay. The cycle repeated. This happened several times.
Insects burrow into plants transferring fungus and bacteria to internal plant parts by their action, greatly increasing decay. Fungi evolved to digest lignin and insects distribute the fungi. Enough so that the planetary system is stabilized.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F12mHTz8M1jTDBm%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=0cea7f350dab490d7bd66bd9db3ab009477c09c3a4c885e5990398be5da8684d&ipo=images)
QuoteSpecific lineages within the basidiomycete fungi, white rot species, have evolved the ability to break up a major structural component of woody plants, lignin.
Keeping the correct amount of CO2 in the air turns out to be a big deal.
Who coulda knowd?
Peak oil not talked about right now because everyone is distracted with other issues.
Fracking, deep water drilling and bio-fuels all are reactions to peak oil... Easy stuff is gone. No more spindle top gushers...
Now where is that cartoon I posted 3 forums and about 10 years ago?
Here it is. My favourite peak oil video still on youtube!
Fuel here is hovering around $2.10 a litre. When I started drivig it was $0.20 a litre. 10 fold in 35 years.
Peak oil is adding to inflation, and all we know how to do is print more money, adding to inflation.
The correct response is use less... But... No government will ever get elected telling people your chldren will have a lower standard of living than you, hence the cycle goes on until we fall off a clif, One of many, we are rushing towards:
Ecconomic collapse
Food shortage
Environmental collapse
Social collapse
Wars
Population collapse
IQ collapse?...
Hmm, seeing all of these right now already. Maybe we are already in free fall?
Western ecconomic society needs to grow to survive. its basd on increasing money supply. It needs cheap energy to do this. We have run out of chep energy. De-growth is the only path forward. Some call this collapse. Most think we can avoid it. We can only delay.
JOW
Quote from: K-Dog on Aug 01, 2023, 12:37 AMQuote from: ed_from on Jul 31, 2023, 09:11 PMI thought we were running out of affordable fossil fuels and bad stuff was supposed to happen. Are we there yet?
Considering that I once bought gas for 17 cents a gallon in a gas war and getting to and from work now sucks up about an hour of the work shift, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
I once bought cheap gas in the US as well...us all being geezers and all. I also once lived in a state that had rationing when the 1979 global peak oil hit. The US hasn't seen state wide rationing since the late 70's has it?
And traveling to work is all about cost, you picked gas cost. Bummer. We are victims of our choices sometimes, certainly an hour of my work shift is 2250 miles of EV driving a stupid cage, at night time electricity charging rates. My current gas powered commuting 2 wheeler is worth about 1950 miles. More efficient commuting for everyone, and geriatrics can help save the world!
Pretty stiff premium to be able to broadcast social status while just going to and from work seems like, or fuel is crazy expensive in the PAC NW?
Quote from: TDoS on Feb 20, 2025, 05:52 PMQuote from: K-Dog on Aug 01, 2023, 12:37 AMQuote from: ed_from on Jul 31, 2023, 09:11 PMI thought we were running out of affordable fossil fuels and bad stuff was supposed to happen. Are we there yet?
Considering that I once bought gas for 17 cents a gallon in a gas war and getting to and from work now sucks up about an hour of the work shift, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
I once bought cheap gas in the US as well...us all being geezers and all. I also once lived in a state that had rationing when the 1979 global peak oil hit. The US hasn't seen state wide rationing since the late 70's has it?
And traveling to work is all about cost, you picked gas cost. Bummer. We are victims of our choices sometimes, certainly an hour of my work shift is 2250 miles of EV driving a stupid cage, at night time electricity charging rates. My current gas powered commuting 2 wheeler is worth about 1950 miles. More efficient commuting for everyone, and geriatrics can help save the world!
Pretty stiff premium to be able to broadcast social status while just going to and from work seems like, or fuel is crazy expensive in the PAC NW?
Working always costs money, There are obvious costs. A minimum $6 a shift for fossil fuel, the elective chocolate croissant and coffee for about $5.20. I need it for strength. Toss that box. Tote that bale. On a Seattle McJob wage that is about half an hour in mandatory expenses.
There are also hidden costs that are hard to articulate, but you know they are they. Simply being a wage slave makes you a consumer and when you have sold your time you must spend more on your off time to make up for the labor you stole from yourself to sell to someone else.
This makes me very irritated when I am stuck with four hour shifts. I figure an hour of my 'working day' is simple overhead from having to work. That makes a hidden tax on the job of 25% doubling the visible cost to account for hidden costs. (not likely accurate, but you have to start somewhere, and the actual hidden costs are larger IMHO). Once I have four hours that are all mine, I am OK with the arrangement.
Hidden costs also scale with income. I get my work shirts at my McJob for free. If I had not worked in the more casual professional era when I slummed as an engineer I would have had to have a suit. The peoples car of the low tier American working class it the Toyota. The higher tier class traitors of the American working class drive more expensive cars. Assholes drive Teslas.
Bottom line, I am not a happy camper when I work four hour shifts. I feel like I am getting screwed. And I do not think I am wrong.
Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 20, 2025, 07:04 PMThis makes me very irritated when I am stuck with four hour shifts. I figure an hour of my 'working day' is simple overhead from having to work. That makes a hidden tax on the job of 25% doubling the visible cost to account for hidden costs. (not likely accurate, but you have to start somewhere, and the actual hidden costs are larger IMHO). Once I have four hours that are all mine, I am OK with the arrangement.
Well...then a 5 hour shift gives you four hours that are yours. But you are still stuck with an hours worth of "tax" to make it happen.
ALways thought of these types of things as "fixed costs". Regardless of job, you drive there. Whether you eat along the way or buy some groceries and make your own sandwich, a fixed cost regardless. Lump these types of things into just "life". I really like doing X! Pay to play. Or work.
Quote from: K-DogHidden costs also scale with income. I get my work shirts at my McJob for free. If I had not worked in the more casual professional era when I slummed as an engineer I would have had to have a suit. The peoples car of the low tier American working class it the Toyota. The higher tier class traitors of the American working class drive more expensive cars. Assholes drive Teslas.
Well, never placed much value in how people decide to advertise their social class with clothes or jewerly or cars. You can find assholes behind the wheel of any automobile...same as you can an incompetent driver.
My wife falls for the status broadcasting with cars and clothes and whatnot. Maybe most do...otherwise advertising wouldn't work. I find it hysterical and take advantage of it everytime sometime broadcasts that they've fallen for it...or not, and work it in both directions just to watch the shocked look when someone expects one version of what they think you are, and you show up as the other. It works in both directions. I get giggles out of it every time.
Quote from: K-DogBottom line, I am not a happy camper when I work four hour shifts. I feel like I am getting screwed. And I do not think I am wrong.
Everyone gets screwed, one way or another when it comes to costs related to work. I consider buying suits to have to do dog and pony shows irritating. Just a cost of doing business/work.