Quote from: RE on Feb 20, 2024, 11:58 PMQuote from: K-Dog on Feb 20, 2024, 07:51 PMThere is no independent universe of ideas, and we have no free will. Learning is the communication of experience but, without a human to learn there is no learning.
Without humans there are no ideas.
That is a very anthropocentric view of existence, that ideas cannot exist without people. Actually, IMHO, people would not exist without ideas, they wouldn't become sapient. Sapience is the ability to use your brain to discover the ideas and principles that govern the universe. From your point of view the law of gravity doesn't exist until humans arrive and figure out what it is. But that idea, that it's directly proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to their distance apart was true long before Newton came up with the idea. It's been true since the Big Bang and the beginning of time.
RE
"Sapience is the ability to use your brain to discover the ideas and principles that govern the universe."
No, we do not discover, we create abstractions from sense perceptions. After abstracting the idealist goes on to fool themself that their abstractions are ideas with an existence outside themself. That is an error.
It is not anthropocentric, it is the opposite. The universe has an existence independent of people, but ideas don't exist if people don't. Ideas are only abstractions made by the human brain. They have no independent existence. This is proved by simply noting ideas can be wrong.
When there are no humans left on the planet, there is nobody left to say people have become extinct. There is nobody left to define what people were.