Quote from: TDoS on May 17, 2024, 08:41 PM

QuoteI don't see much hope for a peaceful way out of our economic problems, because even if Green Hydrogen could be used to substitute, we're going to have a shrinking amount of per capita available energy until such time as we have a significant die off of the population.  That won't happen without violence.
RE

Reference to US per capita energy use use since 1965. We've had shrinking per capita energy use here in the US since 1979.

So 45 years of this thing happening, how more farther does the per capita current Kwh or a quantity of additional years/decades before the violence kicks off?

That graph is interesting but it does not mean much.  It would be interesting to correlate economic indicators and gas prices with the curve. 

But why does it not mean much?

Half of this energy use, or a huge part of it is elective.  In a city, more than half of all energy use is elective if you have decent public transportation.  Life does not depend on a visit to a mall, though without such useless activities American life sucks bad.  There is nothing to do but be by yourself if you are not an energy hog.

The exact measure of excess us is not the issue, but there is a level below which energy use is necessary and not elective.  Enough gas or electricity to cook, or get to a job if you have one.  That is the bitch line.  The amount of energy it actually takes to keep the show going.  That number could be worked out with enough study and effort.  The number would vary by location but the point is, the number exists.  So somewhere above that line, but close to it, things will go to shit.  Depending on the stupidity of the status-quo, collapse could come sooner. 

Above the line dissidents are violently suppressed but life goes on.  Below the line the FSOA becomes what Berlin was when the Soviet Army rolled in.  Ironic for sure.  Society does not work with energy use below this line, nothing works there is no power.  There is no longer enough power to turn the wheels of necessity.  40,0000kWh in the lower 48?  Backlash in the social knots that hold things together, already loose, snap tight and what looks like George Floyd riots spread, and then nothing stops the riots as the knots break.

QuoteWe may not need to drop all the way to existential crisis for bigger levels of violence, the difference between the way the rich live and the poor do and the diminished expectations of achieving the "Amerikan Dream" may be enough to set it off while people still have enough to eat to survive.

I agree, and then those who still had enough to eat can watch dominoes fall right up to their front door.

The double domino effect kicks in at the end.