A two year old discussion that will be of interest to the hard-core doomer.  The fossil gurus are mentioned.

Peter's website: Toxic Plants Blog

There seems to be no understanding of the Seneca Cliff in the conversation.  Something the 'Greer' Camp gets wrong.

The catabolic collapse relates to doom, the same way democratic socialism relates to anarcho-primitivism. 

Both speakers suffer from affluensa.  They know our days are numbered, but their affluensa causes both of them to be accepting of business as usual.  Content to watch collapse from a perch of comfort and safety.  One motivation for catabolic collapse  among others.  It appeals tto the affluent.  That said there is insight in the discussion despite a foolish excursion into vertical farm bullshit, literally.  Vertical farms have shadows.  Vertical farms could only be on the north edge of New York Cities' Central Park.  The ones behind are in shade.  Total hopium, elucidated using basic geometry.

I take issue with the discussion.  The Seneca cliff kills tight oil production.  When million of dollars of equipment and coordination are needed to bring new oil to market society will depend on a house of cards.  When that house of cards falls we have peak oil in spades.  It will take more than spades to get at the tight oil bonanza which will become unattainable.

The limits to growth will be reached. The result will be a rather sudden and uncontrollable decline in both population and industrial capacity.

Peak pain.  In a wasted broken-down polluted word.