• Science
    • Planetary Material Conditions
    • Society
    • Politics
    • Doom
    • Doom Philosophy
    • Solutions
    • General category
    • Revolution
  • Move
  • Topic
  • Back
  • Next

    Extreme class stratification as the natural order of things.

    Started by K-Dog Dec 02, 2025, 10:53 AM

    Message path : / Politics / Eat the rich / Extreme class stratification as the natural order of things. #6


    Selected path :

    K-Dog

    • Administrator
    • *****
    • Chief Intellectual Dry Humper
    • Posts: 1,639
    • Location: Seattle
    Dec 02, 2025, 10:53 AM
    No, I didn't say "socialism." But you went straight to the most tired, brain-dead anti-socialist talking point anyway, so yeah — I'm going to address it.  And of course Russia comes up. It always fucking does. It's tedious. It's lazy. And it has nothing to do with the discussion.  Socialism is more American than apple pie, and half the shit wrapped in the American flag.  Always Russia is brought up, and as always the comparison is tedious and brain dead.

    The Socialist Party of America was one of the largest socialist parties in the world in the early 1900s.
    Eugene Debs, an American, won 6% of the 1912 presidential vote in 1912.  Milwaukee, Flint, Berkeley, Schenectady, Minneapolis, Reading, Bridgeport, and other cities had socialist mayors.  The new deal is the largest social-democratic program ever.

    And unless you want to give them up, you rely on socialist programs every day: Public Libraries, Social Security, Medicare, Public highways, Public Universities, National Parks, Fire and Police Services.
    Socialism is American, but the first thing every detractor wants to do is move the discussion to Europe a hundred years ago.

    If you knew anything about what happened in Russia you would know that the Revolution was Betrayed and Stalin's system was STATE CAPITALISM.  Leon Trotsky's Revolution Betrayed

    QuoteI don't blame you, wouldn't we all like to be Brezos?

    Fuck no. Why the fuck would I want to be a billionaire parasite who treats workers like disposable trash? That's a joke.  Not having to pay tax so he could  provide free shipping was an abomination.  But the big bucks always come from an asymmetrical power arrangement and exploitation, so there is nothing new under the sun about that.

    Back to socialism, you assume that the word has no stable meaning. It actually does and getting hung up on words is only useful when you are making a bad argument.  When I use the word socialism, I'm not expecting anyone to guess my private definition. I use the standard, academically recognized one, which is:

    QuoteCollective investment in public goods, financed by progressive taxation, within a democratic political system.

    Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland somewhat qualify.  The USSR implemented a dictatorship and does not qualify at all.  The Nazi Party, formally known as the National Socialist German Workers' Party, did not embrace socialism in any meaningful way.  "National Socialist" was a marketing lie. The Nazi system was ultra-capitalist, ultra-nationalist, and violently anti-worker. The label meant nothing.

    ere are words as labels, and then there is reality which has nothing to do with words.

    QuoteWorkers democratically owning or controlling the means of production.
    Also describes socialism, and this definition is not not mutually exclusive from the first.

    This is a

    new Diner page

    Logged in as:Guest
    Forum Home