[TDoS]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/27/israel-hamas-war-campus-protests-arrests/73462872007/
Mass arrests, officers in riot gear: Pro-Palestinian protesters face police crackdowns
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I wonder why I haven't seen this type of title elsewhere, perhaps reflecting a similar sentiment but with only a minor word change to reflect how others might feel?

Mass arrests, officers in riot gear: Pro-Hamas protesters face police crackdowns

[RE]

I wonder why I haven't seen this type of title elsewhere, perhaps reflecting a similar sentiment but with only a minor word change to reflect how others might feel?

Perhaps because none of the protesters hold up any signs reading that they are pro-Hamas or have any slogans or chants saying they are pro-Hamas?  AFAIK no protest leaders have endorsed Hamas, although there may be some members of Hamas who have attended the demonstrations.



Do you see any signs supporting Hamas in this crowd?

Unless the news agency could get verifiable proof that the demonstrators were supporting Hamas, they would be wide open to a lawsuit.  As it is, even saying the protests are anti-semitic is not accurate, though there are anti-semites attending some of them no doubt.

The goals of the protests are to end the occupation of Gaza by the Israeli military, to force divestment of companies doing business with Israel, and to have self-ruling Goobermint for the Palestinians.  The goal of Hamas is destruction of the state of Israel, which again some protesters may support but isn't an express goal of the protests as it is of Hamas.

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[RE]

The protests going into another week are still increasing in number and size, and they have ratcheted up from setting up tents outdoors to Occupying university buildings.  Since few of the universities are likely to capitulate and do any significant divestiture of their portfolios, it's closing in on time for TPTB to send in the National Guard.  It's hard to imagine they will allow this movement to go on as long as Occupy did.  Since the Summer is just beginning, there's a solid 6 months left in the outdoor protest season, and since many students don't take summer classes they likely are looking forward to a fun summer making some headlines, smoking dope and hooking up while doing battle with the Gestapo.



I think you can also count on at this point action happening at the Summer Olympics, being held this year in Paris.  Nobody loves street protesting more than the Frogs, who are experts at it and won't pass up a great opportunity like this one to burn some cop cars.

As predicted, 2024 is shaping up to be a banner year in Collapse.

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-30-24/index.html

Pro-Palestinian protests disrupt colleges across the US

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[RE]

They're clearing the campus.  So far no teargas.

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[TDoS]

I wonder why I haven't seen this type of title elsewhere, perhaps reflecting a similar sentiment but with only a minor word change to reflect how others might feel?

Perhaps because none of the protesters hold up any signs reading that they are pro-Hamas or have any slogans or chants saying they are pro-Hamas?

Hamas folks are Palestinians. Leaders of Palestinians no less. So obviously support of Palestinians includes Hamas, no matter how unseemly that might be to those of delicate sensibilities. No different than support of Americans includes support of Americans who are MAGA, KKK members, white nationalists, black nationalists, neo-Nazi's American by birth, Doomers, etc etc.

Did you really not know that Hamas leaders are Palestinians?

[RE]

All pro-Hamas are pro Palestine does not imply that all pro-Palestine are pro-Hamas.  Do you not understand set theory?  Hamas is a subset of Palestinians.  The set of students who support Palestinians intersects with the set of pro-Palestinian people but not necessarily the set of pro Hamas.  I would draw the circles, but most 4th graders grasp this logic.  You must have missed it.

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[K-Dog]

All pro-Hamas are pro Palestine does not imply that all pro-Palestine are pro-Hamas.  Do you not understand set theory?  Hamas is a subset of Palestinians.  The set of students who support Palestinians intersects with the set of pro-Palestinian people but not necessarily the set of pro Hamas.  I would draw the circles, but most 4th graders grasp this logic.  You must have missed it.

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Fourth graders don't troll either!  Nothing like a flaming non-sequitur to suck you in.  It almost got me too.  Bring out the Venn Diagarm.

Found it.  We had it stashed next to the whips and chains in that big old-school steamer trunk I found at a garage sale a few years ago.

[RE]

Fourth graders don't troll either!  Nothing like a flaming non-sequitur to suck you in.  It almost got me too.  Bring out the Venn Diagarm.

The same bad logic is being used calling the protests anti-semitic.  All anti-semites are anti-Israeli, but not all anti-Israelis are anti-semites.    In this case anti-semites are a subset of people who are anti-Israel.  The protesters are all anti-Israeli government policy, but not necessarily anti-Jewish people.  You could break it down further, because there's a subset of people who are anti Israeli policy whoo also are anti Israel and believe the state itself should be dismantled.  That subset intersects with the pro-Hamas subset, which intersects with the set of people who think violence is aa good way to achieve this goal.

I could draw all the circles of all the groups and lay it out, but I don't teach 4th grade math anymore. lol.

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[TDoS]

All pro-Hamas are pro Palestine does not imply that all pro-Palestine are pro-Hamas.

Good thing I didn't say anything like that then.

Do you not understand set theory?

Do you not understand that reading things into what I write is setting up your own straw horse to beat?

Hamas is a subset of Palestinians.

Same as the subsets in the group of "Americans", exactly as I already demonstrated I was quite well aware of. So my answer to your prior question is, "Did you not notice I have already proven I understand "set theory" just fine but you missed it in the rush to find the straw horse?

The set of students who support Palestinians intersects with the set of pro-Palestinian people but not necessarily the set of pro Hamas.  I would draw the circles, but most 4th graders grasp this logic.  You must have missed it.
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The best response you've got is a VENN diagram? Have you forgotten what they are and couldn't just say the word? Now I'm worried, CAN you draw circles or did you just use the word "circle" because you forgot what a Venn diagram is?

[TDoS]

Fourth graders don't troll either!  Nothing like a flaming non-sequitur to suck you in.  It almost got me too.  Bring out the Venn Diagarm.

Now we're talking about someone with an education! EE's can be counted on to know Venn diagrams. And they work just as well for Americans as they would for Palestinians, as I pointed out.

[RE]

Same as the subsets in the group of "Americans"

The example of Americans is equally flawed.

No different than support of Americans includes support of Americans who are MAGA, KKK members, white nationalists, black nationalists, neo-Nazi's American by birth, Doomers, etc etc

Support for America doesn't necessarily include MAGA, KKK etc.  It doesn't even mean you support Demodopes or Repugnants.  You can support America but not the Demodope party, or support it and not support Repugnants.  In fact that's probably true of almost all members of those parties.

Because the set of all Americans includes sets of people with ideas you don't agree with doesn't mean supporting Amerika is supporting every idea of everyone in Amerika.  That's patently impossible, since many people have mutually exclusive ideas.

You have a lot of problems with logic.  That explains a lot.

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[TDoS]

Same as the subsets in the group of "Americans"

The example of Americans is equally flawed.

Really? So support of Americans isn't support of all Americans including MAGA folks and white nationalists and neo-Nazis and Libtards, etc etc?

No different than support of Americans includes support of Americans who are MAGA, KKK members, white nationalists, black nationalists, neo-Nazi's American by birth, Doomers, etc etc

Support for America doesn't necessarily include MAGA, KKK etc.

Good thing I didn't say AMERICA then. I said AMERICANS. Was that an on purpose, or are you really sliding with age and lack of challenges around the home?

You have a lot of problems with logic.  That explains a lot.
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And you don't know the difference between Americans and America. That explains it ALL. You feeling okay, or maybe are just tired or something?

[RE]

Really? So support of Americans isn't support of all Americans including MAGA folks and white nationalists and neo-Nazis and Libtards, etc etc?

Nope.  It depends on context.  With respect to Palestinians, the context is support of their desire for self-rule  and an end to the occupation of Gaza.  The protests have express goals they support:

1- Divestiture by the Universities of investment in Israeli companies and arms manufacturers who supply the Israelis

2- A cease fire by both sides

3- Removal of Israeli Occupying forces from Gaza.

4- The creation of a separate Palestinian state with its own territory and goobermint

Nowhere in there is support of Hamas mentioned or implied.

And you don't know the difference between Americans and America.

The difference is one refers to the political state, the other refers to the individuals who by virtue of citizenship are members of that state.

Palestinians have no state, Palestine currently just refers to a geographic area which includes Israel.  So depending on context, "Palestinians" is used as a substitute for talking about nation-state level goals.  In the context of the demonstrations, when a sign says "We support the Patestinians", it's a short way of saying "We support Palestinians in their desire for Goals 1-4 as stated in the letter we sent to the University administration."

Trying to conflate Hamas into it is just pandering to fears of terrorism, just as calling the protests anti-semitic conflates racism into the debate.  A good newz agency tries to avoid doing that sort of thing, newz agencies which have an agenda to sway public opinion against the demonstrators add this stuff in on purpose.  In fact what they do is turn the whole debate into an argument about terrorism and racism, rather than about political independence and military occupation.

This is obvious to Diners, who are used to seeing political spin and propaganda techniques used in the media, not so obvious to the population at large.  It is no surprise you would write a headline to make this about Hamas rather than the actual goals stated by the demonstrators, since strawman arguments are a regular feature of trolling behavior.  Just in this case for a change you applied it to politics instead of Peak Oil.  Otherwise, it's just same shit, different day.

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[K-Dog]

I'm sure if I study the 'Art of War' for a while I could find the strategy.  But I can say it in my own words.  How to pull America in deeper than it already fucking is.

Israel has taken Rafah, and.

Rafah border crossing to be managed by private contractor: Haaretz

A new report by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz underscored a plot to take the Rafah border crossing away from Palestinian control in favor of giving it to a US security private contractor that would do "Israel's" bidding.

In an exclusive for Israeli newspaper Haaretz, "Israel" has made a plea to the US regarding the takeover of the Rafah border crossing, saying it would be passed on to a Private Security Contracting Company.

* That link goes to the web page of the American security company.  Think before you click.

This was offered up after "Israel" committed to "restrict its operation in Rafah", which started on Monday, "aiming only to deny Hamas authority over the border crossing that connects Gaza with Egypt, and concentrating on the eastern side of the city."

According to Haaretz, the Israeli occupation government, in order to secure the deal, has been negotiating with "a private company in the US that specializes in assisting armies and governments around the world engaged in military conflicts. The company has operated in several African and Middle Eastern countries, guarding strategic sites like oil fields, airports, army bases, and sensitive border crossings. It employs veterans of elite US Army units."

Read more: Blackwater founder calls on US to colonize Africa, Latin America

Allegedly, Tel Aviv also pledged "not to damage the crossing's facilities to ensure its continuous operation," alleging that the "private American security company will assume management of the crossing after the IDF [Israeli occupation forces] concludes its operation."

In turn, State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller, earlier claimed he had no information about such a plot to assume control over the Rafah border crossing.

In that regard, Haaretz also reported that Egyptian officials expressed opposition to an assault on Rafah because they were concerned that civilians might attempt to cross the border fence seeking shelter. Allegedly, they also warned that Hamas might try to breach the fence to assist Gazans in fleeing.

Source Link

[RE]

Well, it's no surprise there are Mercs doing biz with Israel, that's nothing new.  However, publicly ADVERTIZING that you want to use Mercs IS a new strategy.  This story is not the result of great journalistic investigative reporting, it's obviously been leaked to this newzpaper on purpose.

Why do this?  Well, first it allows them to circumvent needing any congressional approval to get active FSoA military personnel doing this job. 2nd it means the Israelis pick up the tab to pay for their salaries, so it doesn't take any FSoA taxpayer dollars.  3rd Mercs have much less oversight over how they go about doing their enforcement job.  The only problems come when they get a little over-zealous and you get an incident where a whole bunch of women and children get in the way of the bullets they are using to do the enforcing with, which some pesky reporter manages to video with his Iphone.

Now, if the FSoA officially doesn't know they are using Mercs, they have Plausible Deniability, so that is the way this sort of thing would normally be done.  The only worries the contractor has is if somebody at the Hague decides to prosecute the CEO for war crimes.  Otherwise, they could give a shit about public opinion either here or in Israel.

Here however, by asking permission publicly, plausible deniability is lost, so if there is an ugly incident then it would blowback onto the pols who gave the OK for it.  Thus I can't see any pol as giving the Thumbs Up on this unless he is getting an awfully big campaign contribution from the Israeli Goobermint.  Under the table of course, since that wouldn't be legal.

If the Israelis do manage to get this plan approved, it gives them Plausible Deniability that they are trying to takeover these areas,  they simply are trying to protect them from being sabotaged by terrorists once the IDF leaves the neighborhood.  They also can claim they are not handling the border crossing security problem the Egyptians will have as Palestinians try to cross into Egypt.  I doubt the Egyptians like this plan very much.

The Israelis have everything to gain and nothing to lose with this arrangement, but there is nothing for the FSoA to gain here other than money being paid to the Merc Company and money paid to politicians in the pocket of the Israeli Goobermint, of which there are many.  There is no strategic value here, except perhaps keeping some oil company assets in the neighborhood from being sabotaged.

Will it be given the Thumbs Up?  Depends how much money the Israelis sprinkle around in Washington.  It's a risky thing to approve if there is an ugly incident following the implementation, which there probably would be eventually.  But if the Envelope has enough Greenbacks in it, I'm sure the Israelis can find the right pockets to stuff it into.

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