Generational Generalizations

[RE]

Old folks always complain about young ones, and vica versa.  Gen Z now stands accused of being Lazy as well as Stupid.

"Many recent college graduates may struggle with entering the workforce for the first time as it can be a huge contrast from what they are used to throughout their education journey," Intelligent's Chief Education and Career Development Advisor Huy Nguyen said in the report.  They are often unprepared for a less structured environment, workplace cultural dynamics, and the expectation of autonomous work. Although they may have some theoretical knowledge from college, they often lack the practical, real-world experience and soft skills required to succeed in the work environment."

I wouldn't be surprised, but isn't this true of all recently graduated college kids from any era going into the workforce?  Are Gen Z grads significantly worse than Boomers were when they took their first job after spending the summer smoking reefer at Woodstock?  How about the Dazed and Confused Gen X  grads who had Fast Tim4es at Ridgemont High before joining the Delta Frat at Faber College?

 

 

If they are so bad, who are they gonna get to replace them?  Basically, this sounds like an excuse for companies needing to lay off workers.  Blame it on the new hires.

https://www.newsweek.com/companies-are-quickly-firing-gen-z-employees-1958104

Companies Are Quickly Firing Gen Z Employees

RE

[TDoS]

Old folks always complain about young ones, and vica versa.  Gen Z now stands accused of being Lazy as well as Stupid.

Generalizations are great aren't they?

My experience with young professionals is the ones I've seen hired are outstanding. No complaints from me at all when it comes to work regardless of what they might be doing, pretending to be, what their pronouns might be, in their off time.

Of course, I don't have to deal with "normal" youngsters. They are pretty hygraded by the time they bump into working with me. And then I probably come across as one of those "old farts" when I begin discussing cool things and experiences that occured decades before they were born.

[Knarf]

I guess most of us here are all baby boomers. We had the war to deal with when we entered the market place. In the silicon valley there were a lot of jobs in the tech industry. I worked at a couple places that bored me to death. I didn't like assembly kind of work. I eventually got into making kitchen cabinets and installing/remodeling kitchens, which led to some new home construction, and a home repair business. I preferred being the boss, and the worker. No middle "people". I liked making the decisions on how to set prices, when I wanted to do the job, and what products I needed to work.

Many grads today face a chaotic economy, post Covid rules, and evolving tech. It isn't easy getting in the groove of being used by a corporation or even small businesses now. If any of these institutions hope to keep their new employees they are going to have to get the employees involved in the bigger picture. Then they will feel comfortable being a cog in the very small wheel that helps turn the capitalistic system. I won't do it. But apparently enough young people can be hynotised.

[K-Dog]

Alienation,

Workers do not decide what commodities are made, how they are made, and in what working conditions they are made. As a result, work is often dreary, repetitive, and even dangerous. Such work may be suitable for machines, or beings without the ability to consciously and freely decide how they want to work, but it is not suitable for human beings.

Classic Marx.  It is important to note that alienation applies to the entire modern supply chain.

[RE]

Dog! U R back!     I wuz getting worried.

RE

[TDoS]

Workers do not decide what commodities are made, how they are made, and in what working conditions they are made. As a result, work is often dreary, repetitive, and even dangerous. Such work may be suitable for machines, or beings without the ability to consciously and freely decide how they want to work, but it is not suitable for human beings.

Classic Marx.  It is important to note that alienation applies to the entire modern supply chain.

Would this quote also apply to scientific research? Are scientists considered "workers" within the context of this theory of political thought?

Work isn't dreary or repetitive, rarely dangerous and certainly many decide how they want to work. In my case in slippers, nylon gym shorts and a t-shirt.

[K-Dog]

If you get a paycheck and are not an owner you are a worker.  Workers do not own the means of production and are paid for their time by those who do.  Scientists never have free reign to do as they please.  To be paid they must do what their employer wants.  Scientists are workers who are paid for their time.

Definition:

Correct:  The class of industrial wage earners who, possessing neither capital nor production means, must earn their living by selling their labor.

Incorrect: The poorest class of working people.  This definition is actual capitalist propaganda intended to confabulate some some highly paid workers with a middle class.  The middle class is an entirely different class.  The middle class are small business owners who are not paid by other people and who in fact may employ a few people.  The middle class is petite-bourgeois.

Education does not move people out of the working class.  The working class does not own or have any say in the means of production.  They are paid by those who do.  How much they are paid does not change the arrangement.

'The poorest class of working people.'  Is an oxymoron.  In capitalism the poorest class in society are always those who do actual work as everyone knows, and learned during COVID.  Can we all say 'ESSENTIAL WORKER' together.  Every Marxist knows capitalism only pays workers enough to survive.  In capitalism the working class is by definition poor.  That is why 'poorest class of workers' is nonsense. 

Capitalism bakes poor workers into the cake.  It is a notable contradiction of capitalism that regardless of the quantity of goods produced there are always people in need.  For capitalism to work there must always be people who are unemployed and willing to work for a low wage.  Capitalism needs a reserve army of labor to function.  This reserve army is the unemployed.  People in need, suffering and ready for exploitation.  If capitalism did not have unemployed people it would make them.

The market is so wise that it requires people suffer to function.

[TDoS]

If you get a paycheck and are not an owner you are a worker.  Workers do not own the means of production and are paid for their time by those who do.  Scientists never have free reign to do as they please.  To be paid they must do what their employer wants.  Scientists are workers who are paid for their time.

Well, that is true. As far as free reign, do you really want to discuss your scientifc experience and what you were, or were not, told to do? I've certainly been ASKED to do things, does that count? I would happily do what was asked first, and then damn well researched all the cool stuff I wanted. You don't seriously think I was ever pointed at peak oil do you? It has been all hobby, all the way, using millions of dollars of information provided to me during my normal course of work. Not once did someone say "go figure out peak oil!".

Every Marxist knows capitalism only pays workers enough to survive. 

By this definition, because I am paid more than enough to survive....what does that make me? What does it make you? Million dollar homes, German luxury cars for everyone in the family, you are right there with me in a Marxist class that does better than survive.

Is Marxism like all pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others? You and I fall into that category right quick like!

[RE]

If you get a paycheck and are not an owner you are a worker.  Workers do not own the means of production and are paid for their time by those who do.  Scientists never have free reign to do as they please.  To be paid they must do what their employer wants.  Scientists are workers who are paid for their time.

Every Marxist knows capitalism only pays workers enough to survive. 

By this definition, because I am paid more than enough to survive....what does that make me?

A commodity.

Is Marxism like all pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others?

Did you actually read Animal Farm, or just the Cliff Notes?

Marxism is like All Capitalists are Pigs. 

RE

[TDoS]

Every Marxist knows capitalism only pays workers enough to survive. 

By this definition, because I am paid more than enough to survive....what does that make me?

A commodity.
[/quote]
Really? And is this type of person within Marxism discussed by Marx himself, or are you riffing to get K-Dog out of a jam because he was being relative absolute in what people were in a Marxist based Communism scheme? And him and I don't fit, and if there are two of us, there are undoubtedly millions more.

]Is Marxism like all pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others?

Did you actually read Animal Farm, or just the Cliff Notes?

Avoiding the question because it is obviously relevant and you couldn't figure out how to fight the incongruity? And now you've created us "commodities" that seem to be more equal than others (which is apropos to my point), certainly K-Dog doesn't want anyone coming in to "equalize" his lifestyle and housing and cars any more than I want it done to me.

Marxism is like All Capitalists are Pigs. 
RE

Sure. And then let political leaders take their place by making darn sure if you aren't related to them you get gruel and 300 sq feet in a concrete tower with occasional heat and running water and are assigned to the job most useful to the state. K-Dog goes into a computer assembly line to build them by hand, I get handed a well tender truck and go make sure old pumpjacks go up and down, and you get wheeled to an assembly line requiring you to put K-Dogs assembled PCs into a box.

No more commodities, just us good ol' Marxist workers.

[RE]

You're a Commodity in the sense you are something the capitalist buys to run his bizness.  Another way to look at it is you are a Tool. Some tools are more expensive than other tools.  Hammers are cheap tools a bizness might need; it might also need CNC machines.  The capitalist buys hammers cheap, he pays more for CNC machines.  You and Kdog are CNC machines in your respective professions.

Communist biznesses need Tools also, including expensive ones.  A communist engineer makes more than a communist roofer.  However, Communist Roofers make enough to have a decent apartment. 

RE

[K-Dog]

Communist biznesses need Tools also, including expensive ones.  A communist engineer makes more than a communist roofer.  However, Communist Roofers make enough to have a decent apartment. 

RE

And everyone has health care and a roof.

I admit to being fortunate, and I was taught to save money by survivors of the depression.  I am by the standards of society successful.  And I can take pride that all that I have was earned by wage slavery.  A straight-up wage.  I provided socially necessary labor and I was paid.

I turned myself into a valuable commodity and in the end I was replaced with cheaper commodities.  There is nothing to "equalize" about my lifestyle.  I earned what I have, and I do not live to excess.

I earned what I have under the rules of communism, and I did it in America.  I was never in a position to partake of the capitalist pie or make any capitalist decisions.  I was always paid for my time only.  I have never had property to rent.  I am in a unique position to demonstrate what life in communism should actually be like.  I worked and I retired and I have health care.  And I did it without exploiting anybody.

I continue to work to improve my lot, but I do not 'have' to.  I do not 'have' to because I made choices.  I am a genuine American comrade.

[TDoS]

You're a Commodity in the sense you are something the capitalist buys to run his bizness.

We weren't discussing what K-Dog and I are in a capitalist system, but the Marxist one.

You and Kdog are CNC machines in your respective professions.

So what are we called in Marxist/Communism systems? And does being whatever THAT might be allow us to keep our stuff?

Communist biznesses need Tools also, including expensive ones.  A communist engineer makes more than a communist roofer.  However, Communist Roofers make enough to have a decent apartment. 
RE

So K-Dog would lose his million dollar home and luxury cars and live in a small apartment in a concrete tower of some sort, as his current value to the system is as paid labor in a retail store, and I might get a bigger apartment, better food and get to to keep a car? Sounds equitable to me! Seems a bit against K-Dogs best interest though, advocating for a system that would place his value about one step above yours.

[TDoS]

And everyone has health care and a roof.

Could be, but not like the roof you and I have! However, it looks like under Communism there was homelessness i.e. lacking a roof. USSR. So maybe a roof was just part of the propaganda, as the article states?

While health care in the USSR DOES (unlike apartments) appear to be available to everyone....surely the difference between real care, and one subject to the following problems, is worth considering before trading away certainly the care that RE is getting, and my parents, and myself and family get in a normal capitalist health care system?

Wiki
The Soviet healthcare system was plagued by shortages of medical equipment, drugs, and diagnostic chemicals, and lacked many medications and medical technologies available in the Western world. Its facilities had low technical standards, and medical personnel underwent mediocre training. Soviet hospitals also offered poor hotel amenities such as food and linen. Special hospitals and clinics existed for the nomenklatura which offered a higher standard of care, but one still often below Western standards

I admit to being fortunate, and I was taught to save money by survivors of the depression.  I am by the standards of society successful.  And I can take pride that all that I have was earned by wage slavery.  A straight-up wage.  I provided socially necessary labor and I was paid.

You mention this because you were the only one taught by Depression survivors? Because you aren't unique in that regard any more than being successful. And the wage slavery you and I earned wasn't REALLY wage slavery...you get 14X70 trailers in Appalachia with drug addled children with wage slavery...you get million dollar homes and luxury cars by being just a WEE bit better than that.

I turned myself into a valuable commodity and in the end I was replaced with cheaper commodities.  There is nothing to "equalize" about my lifestyle.  I earned what I have, and I do not live to excess.

So what? So did I (except for the cheaper commodities part), so did RE. We all arrived in perfectly expected outcomes.  You would trade in the outcome from being a commodity in the current system for a shitty lifestyle expected in the Communist one? There it wouldn't matter how smart you were, the local party boss guy gets promoted. And a bigger apartment. And rides to work in Daddys private automobile.

I earned what I have under the rules of communism, and I did it in America. 

When did you live under the rules of Communism...and which one? Because unless daddy was named Mao or Stalin or Gorbechav, you don't get million dollar houses and luxury cars under Communism. You got those.....in...'MURIKA!

I was never in a position to partake of the capitalist pie or make any capitalist decisions. 

But....because you were in a capitalist system....you benefitted just by being nearby? Capitalism didn't make that opportunity available to you as a commodity just by accident?

I was always paid for my time only.  I have never had property to rent. 

So was I. And you've got property to rent if you want to...you simply choose not to. You can collect premo rent for your location, take all those savings and social security and your luxury cars and go live on a golf course in Florida, plus they probably have more sunshine than Seattle.

I am in a unique position to demonstrate what life in communism should actually be like.  I worked and I retired and I have health care.  And I did it without exploiting anybody.

That sounds very important to you. And in communism you don't get a million dollar home, or luxury cars, remember? So call me crazy for noticing, but I'll put up money that your kitchen doesn't look like one of those fine Soviet era commnunism ones in those concrete apartment homes demonstrate your true dedication to the communist state...except..in America....call me liar....

I continue to work to improve my lot, but I do not 'have' to.  I do not 'have' to because I made choices.  I am a genuine American comrade.

Except for the house, car ownership, much better kitchen and far better health care perhaps?

Because based on your criteria for American communists like yourself, I qualify as well! Except motorcycles, I got those too! Probably dusqualifies me from being as good a Communist as you are...it comes across as a luxury item I bet.

[RE]

I have a variety of Housing Options, none of which include Concrete Towers.  I have explained them thoroughly in the Housing thread.

Can you keep your "stuff"?  What stuff?  If your stuff includes a Private Jet, no.  A motorcycle, yes, a dozen Vintage bikes and 3 or 4 carz, no.  Use CFS.

RE