[K-Dog]

Critical thinking must be taught.  I stand by that in spite of a lot of educated people not being able to critically think. 

Obedience and rebellion are human qualities of a social nature.  Both interfere with critical thinking. 

Not only must critical thinking be taught, it requires a mental disposition that has a reasonable delight in questions, and some human meat packages question nothing and have no desire to. 

The natural tendency is to unquestionably eat the corn pone that is provided to you.  Or to spit it out and deny it has any value at all.

[RE]

I think for economically comfortable people it's mainly a question of laziness.  If it's not affecting their lives, who cares?  For those who are struggling economically, they have so many of their own immediate problems to worry about there's no time or energy to consider the bigger social problems and their underlying causes.  It's also why you find that it's mostly gray hairs who think about this stuff.  Besides having the necessary experience and understanding of history, they also have the time.  Retired, kids are grown, what else to occupy your mind while you kick back in the recliner sipping a marguerita while your servant cuts your toenails?



RE

[TDoS]

Critical thinking must be taught.  I stand by that in spite of a lot of educated people not being able to critically think. 

I do not believe critical thinking must be taught. I believe it can also be deduced along the path of normal problem solving, and when it's usefulness is revealed, it can blossom into a full blown skill set through practice.

I'm not sure education has anything to do with it either. I have seen craftsman do amazing things, things they have learned through practice, experimentation, building on skills over the years to be able to tihnk their way through amazingly complex issues...in their areas of expertise. The question then becoming, can they apply the way they learned to become experts in one field, and apply the same logic and theory to others.

Obedience and rebellion are human qualities of a social nature.  Both interfere with critical thinking.

Obedience to the laws of mathematics does not interfere with critical thinking. Rebellion doesn't have much to do with the science side of critical thinking, if your argument is that critical thinking is mostly psychological...well...I don't see that easily.

Not only must critical thinking be taught, it requires a mental disposition that has a reasonable delight in questions, and some human meat packages question nothing and have no desire to.

Delight in questions....and then the intellect to answer them. Nothing wrong with delighting in questions....answer the rights ones and you can earn a reputation for yourself at the national or even international levels. 

[TDoS]

Retired, kids are grown, what else to occupy your mind while you kick back in the recliner sipping a marguerita while your servant cuts your toenails?
RE

Don't retire. Use what at that age is excellent vacation leave to do your hobbys and whatnot (newest used motorcycle is about 4 days out...WOOHOO!!) and then take advantage of the resources available of others who want only the best critical thinking applied to their particular questions.

[K-Dog]

Critical thinking isn't just 'deduced' it requires breaking social conditioning. Craftsmen excel in their field, but can they question authority?

For critical thinking to be deduced a person would have to experience a 'social contradiction' as significant personal experience.

Like Nietzsche watching a horse getting whipped.

And as authentic human experience is increasingly replaced by image, the probability of experiencing a social contradiction vanishes.  Contradictions become just another image, nothing more.

[TDoS]

Critical thinking isn't just 'deduced' it requires breaking social conditioning.

I can agree with that. But that doesn't require being taught, some can be led to it by circumstance. I can actually name the 11 month time span when I acquired it. It was primarily related to learning statistics and their use in...everything.

For critical thinking to be deduced a person would have to experience a 'social contradiction' as significant personal experience.

Yes! This is true. I was told something was true by a national expert. And I asked the question..."is it?". And then demonstrated that PhD's put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else and might not know dick even within their own specialty.

And then this made be cocky and I began thinking this way everywhere, including peak oil. The world is much simpler when you have the ability to demystify it in real time.

Can't say I apply it much to social/relative/poltical circumstances though. Too much "it is half a dozen, not 6!" type nonsense.

[RE]

Critical thinking isn't just 'deduced' it requires breaking social conditioning.

I think this is true in most cases, unless you start to think criitically before social conditioning has had time to set in.  My first experience came in Sunday School, when claims in the Bible didn't make sense to me.  In fact, the whole idea that the Bible was the Word of God didn't seem plausible.  I couldn't see why the various authors of each chapter were any different than regular writers.  Anybody could claim that God spoke to them, but if you say that God speaks to you, generally people think you are crazy.

So anyhow, I started arguing with my Sunday School teacher about stories in the Bible I found suspicious.  Later in life I realized most people don't bother questioning the Bible, they accept it as true on faith.  Perhaps because if they do question it while young their parents punish them.  My parents weren't very religious and from different faiths.  They didn't try to make me accept the stories as God's revealed Truth.

Religion is probably the main thing which destroys critical thinking early in life.  Once it's been squashed, it's hard to get back.

RE

[monsta666]

If you think critically then quite often your thoughts and opinions will diverge from the prevailing social narrative. This poses a problem as there will be some social pressure to conform. The greater the pressure the more likely people will yield in order to fit in. These types of social dynamics will put a brake on "out of the box" thinking. I don't think you can necessarily attribute this entirely to the elite as some of it relates to humans tribal nature.

Thinking critically is one thing but it also takes a certain character to act out or to follow through despite the potential stigma you will face. Quite often people don't want to hear the truth and would rather you follow the herd. Speaking out or thinking differently actively challenges the social narrative which many will find uncomfortable and perhaps even disturbing.

[TDoS]

If you think critically then quite often your thoughts and opinions will diverge from the prevailing social narrative.

Sure. But disagreeing with prevailing social narrative doesn't require critical thinking. It just requires disagreeing with prevailing social narrative for any reason. Potheads can disagree with the prevailing social narrative of reefer madness back in the day just because they like pot. No critical thinking required, just...disagreement.

This poses a problem as there will be some social pressure to conform.

Like THAT hasn't existed since the dawn of time? All it took a couple of centuries ago was being declared a witch to get burned at the stake...there is some "social pressure to conform" right there.

Thinking critically is one thing but it also takes a certain character to act out or to follow through despite the potential stigma you will face.

Nah. It wasn't hard. You just had to know some science, put together the logic and presto.....peak oil in 1990? Oh, let me detail the absurdity! Want to repeat it again in the late 90's my Dear Dr. Campbell? Oh I don't think so! Etc etc.

Quite often people don't want to hear the truth and would rather you follow the herd.

And when the "truth" is just a belief system...and shouldn't be followed? Now we are talking about what...religion? Cults? Or just raging ignorance on a particular topic, with those ahead of their times treated poorly until as time goes by....folks realize it was the herd that was full of crap? And then folks get famous! Hubbert ran that route to some extent. Blasted for saying something silly in 1956...accolades for getting it right in 1970....then trashed again when it turns out his idea was incomplete in nature and others were left to explain why and solve the next peak oil using modern understanding.

Speaking out or thinking differently actively challenges the social narrative which many will find uncomfortable and perhaps even disturbing.

Indeed. There were some years where it was touch and go, but once folks handed over the resources necessary to prove the different thinking....accolades!

[RE]

And when the "truth" is just a belief system...and shouldn't be followed? Now we are talking about what...religion? Cults? Or just raging ignorance on a particular topic, with those ahead of their times treated poorly until as time goes by....folks realize it was the herd that was full of crap?

Certainly a significant and devastating problem when applied to MAGA and El Trumpo.  Peak Oil is hardly worth a mention as failures of critical thinking go.  On the other hand,, the Big Ugly Budget Bill and supporting Israelii Genocide in Gaza are seismic faiures of critical thinking.

RE