Quote from: TDoS on May 16, 2025, 03:27 PMTodays working man, as K-Dog has demonstrated, can certainly find themselves in a higher level of net worth, depending on the time and dollars they had to invest and save. Although he has also mentioned preferring low but safer return investments.

The primary reason some Boomers have 7 figure net worth is because of the vast inflation in the value of the one investment many of them have, which is their McMansion.  It's definitely the case with Kdog.

Thing is, since for most of them it's their primary residence, it's not a very liquid investment.  Given the expenses of taxes, energy use and maintenance the asset can become a liability when they retire and their incomes drop.  They can become "House Poor" and need to sell it, which can be problematic depending on its price and the prevailing interest rates and regulations.  Big problem with this in the Condo market in FL with fire regulations and HOA costs.

Next problem is after selling, they need to find housing they can afford at their reduced income.  The proceeds from the sale don't do them much good if they all need to be spent to buy a small 1 bedroom apartment in a retirement community.  Even worse if they need to go into an assisted living situation, in which case various medical costs will burn through the whole nut in a couple of years in some cases.

For these reasons, I think it's worthwhile to eliminate the McMansion in an analysis of class when it's the primary residence.  Vacation homes which are more easily sold off should be counted though.  Similarly, 1 car should be discounted as a necessity, but multiple cars, RVs and motorcycles count in the net worth calculation.

RE

Quote from: RE on May 16, 2025, 03:18 AMThis gets us back to the question of whether having a 7 figure net worth makes you rich in today's wotld.

Sure, my use of 7 figures net worth was semi-arbitrary because once upon a time, being a MILLIONAIRE was a big deal. Most of us being geriatrics, most of us probably understand the frame of reference.

Quote from: RENow, not being in the class of the filthy rich doesn't mean you're poor or even middle class.  That's more an income driven thing than a net worth thing.  These days to qualify for the 1% on Income, it's around $220K/yr I think.

Is that all it takes? Seems like 2 early career professionals could pull that off.

Quote from: REKdog definitely does not get near that number. 

Of course not. It sounds like for someone with a high net worth, he is cash poor, with his stories of employment and being unhappy with the cost of his coffee and danish compared to his wages. Although, $20G's for a new heat pump? So he can be environmentally friendly? Seems like a bit of disconnect between those two.

Quote from: REYou probably surpass it.  Between his SS and suplemental employment earnings, K-dog is middle class.

In terms of cash flow, sure. But I have been specific about using a net worth metric, as opposed to cash income generated from being a working man. Todays working man, as K-Dog has demonstrated, can certainly find themselves in a higher level of net worth, depending on the time and dollars they had to invest and save. Although he has also mentioned preferring low but safer return investments.

I have been a bit more aggressive in my investing since I began, with occasional reversals. Like April/May 2008  ( a win!) and 2011 (a lose) and Valentines Day 2025 (so far a win!).

Quote from: REMonsta is middle class and Knarf and I are poor.  No filthy rich Diners at this time I am aware of.
RE

Your status I am aware of, from your own postings. I have no opinion and recall no Monsta stories related to the topic. At the Spartanburg SUN grand rollout he looked to be a nice young man, he was sitting with David closer to the tent when you and I were talking.

This is an interesting topic as well. Because I have never in my life cared about net worth. Or todays paycheck. Work hard, work smart, invest along the way,maybe you win, maybe you die of cancer at age 30. It's all a crapshoot.

Smoke'im while you got'im.

Nothing glamorous or righteous about extreme wealth. Also for every billionaire you have there will be a number of tag alongs who will use the earners money for frivolous spending. I have seen it with my own eyes seeing how, what or where those funds goes. Those trust kids can really live it up. Only thing I wonder is what those six figure American Express bills go towards.

When you see such things like this on the regular, I can't help but stop and ponder. Unlike what the social narrative often says about the rich being more virtuous, there are actually a lot of people in the uber rich class who are not exactly hard workers. Heck if they didn't spend so much we would consider them lazy, work-shy individuals. Going from what the front office workers say, it does seem like a good chunk of them don't exactly have sterling personalities either...

QuoteThe excuse for the cooler was "insulting a diner". Where was the insult?

1)  My net worth is personal.  If I am a millionaire or not is my business.

There was a clear sense of me being  'the pot calling the kettle black' in your comment, suggesting that I was a hypocrite for criticizing wealth. 

That is a ridiculous claim.  Extreme wealth is not the same thing as having earned enough to be comfortable.  Extreme wealth is an abuse of power.  Extreme wealth puts one in another class.  Extreme wealth kills democracy.

There are only so many hours in a lifetime.  'Earning' ones own money through labor caps a persons net worth at a million or two, that is all.  Anyone who has more than that has acquired money by other means than working, and are in a class other than the working class.

So you pissed me off and I sent you to the cooler for three days.  RE and I do that when you piss us off and the specific reason in this case results from discussing my personal business.

And while it is true RE has also discussed my net worth, he did not start it, you did, and he did not piss me off like you did.  You are always trying to say I have 'crocodile tears' when it comes to money.  My position is that having a million earned through honest labor is not the same thing as having ten million or more harvested from American capitalist excess.  Those kind of rich are in a social class which looks down on everyone else.

The only people I can look down on are adults of sound mind and body who refuse to work.  I do not have a problem with that at all.  Someone I know was in Italy recently, and it was noted that everybody who was working was old, the young have better things to do.

I see nothing wrong with following your bliss if you do it on your own dime.

In my world, personal contact with the means of production would be something everyone would have to experience for some part of their life.

If that makes me a work NAZI so be it.

This gets us back to the question of whether having a 7 figure net worth makes you rich in today's wotld.

In order to do the Generational Wealth thing with the Trust Funds for your kids, if you set the Capital requirement at $10M for each kid's TF, you need to have that $10M above and beyond things like your own McMansion, cars etc that you need for your own living until you die.  To qualify for this class of people, the minute the kid pops out of the oven, usually the Grandparents of the kid go to the family lawyer and they make the typical "safe" portfolio of stocks, bonds and REITs and gift it to the kid (no inheritance tax), a Trustee is appointed to manage it and the kid gets some defined allowance until 21, when they can usually dissolve the trust and do WTF they want with the money.

So, in your case since it's 1st generation money the grandparents don't have the money, so you would need $10M for each kid, which I'm pretty sure you didn't have yet when they were born.  Maybe getting close to the point now where you could set up a Trust for a grandkid when one arrives.

Now, not being in the class of the filthy rich doesn't mean you're poor or even middle class.  That's more an income driven thing than a net worth thing.  These days to qualify for the 1% on Income, it's around $220K/yr I think.  Kdog definitely does not get near that number.  You probably surpass it.  Between his SS and suplemental employment earnings, K-dog is middle class.  Monsta is middle class and Knarf and I are poor.  No filthy rich Diners at this time I am aware of.

RE

Quote from: RE on May 15, 2025, 06:22 PM

Quote from: TDoS on May 15, 2025, 03:37 PMI have made no claim about the superioriority of billionaires, only classified high net worth individuals starting at 7 figures, like you and I.

Kdog's net worth only gets close to 7 figures if he gets a really good price on the sale of his McMansion, and even then the various closing costs  would likely drop it below 7 figures.  Besides that, he has to split the proceeds with his wife,  She is not interested in selling. 

RE

Last time I checked the Zillow on his joint it puts him into 7 figures pretty easily. As far as joint ownership, that can be an issue, assuming the ownership is rigged that way. Mine is, because rights of survivorship are important in terms of estate planning.

But there are other ways to make it up, life insurance and market savings, 401k's, all the usual working man mechanisms. K-Dog mentioned he isn't thrilled with high growth funds so he might have handicapped himself in that regard.

I put that one up just for you.   

RE

Quote from: TDoS on May 15, 2025, 03:37 PMI have made no claim about the superioriority of billionaires, only classified high net worth individuals starting at 7 figures, like you and I.

Kdog's net worth only gets close to 7 figures if he gets a really good price on the sale of his McMansion, and even then the various closing costs  would likely drop it below 7 figures.  Besides that, he has to split the proceeds with his wife,  She is not interested in selling. 

RE

Quote from: RE on May 15, 2025, 01:04 PM

Peak Oil is back for an encore performance.  It's DejaVu all over again. 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Return-of-Peak-Oil.html

The Return of Peak Oil

The return of peak oil. GOOD ONE! I remember when Robert fell for #3, or was it #4, of this century. He was a decent numbers guy, it is a bit interesting that he only noticed peak oil, again, 7 years AFTER it happened this time. Waiting to be sure I guess?

Quote from: K-Dog on May 12, 2025, 07:05 AM7 figure net worth types?

You claim to be a statician and can't tell 9 figures from 7. Dude, that is a difference of a hundred to one.

Of course I know what 2 orders of magnitude are. Not the point. I had previously and arbitrarily decided that 7 figures and up are high net worth individuals, and speculated on the perspective they, and you and I, might have because of it.

I do use statistics. I have laid no claim to being a statistician. Stochastic modeling, as you've noted, is about handling sharp objects, involving statistics.   There are people who can barely handle sharp objects, true. And then there are those who can juggle them. While riding a unicycle. On a rope strung between two buildings. Over a lake filled with crocodiles. During a rainstorm. While being stung by bees.

Who said such a person needs to have been trained as a statistician?   

Quote from: K-DogI have met three billionaires in my life.  RE knows this to be true because when he was in Seattle RE saw where I worked.  He knows I have sucked in the thin air.

I once got into an argument with Harold Hamm?. And I've met others like him, but never asked about their net worth as it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

Quote from: K-DogBillionaires are not a superior life form.  Sorry to inform you of this.  As humans they are flawed, and capable of making horrible decisions which can ruin the lives of millions of people.

You are going back in the cooler.  Three days.

I have made no claim about the superioriority of billionaires, only classified high net worth individuals starting at 7 figures, like you and I.

The excuse for the cooler was "insulting a diner". Where was the insult?