Some people don't care if they are hated.

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 05, 2026, 05:09 PMI don't understand the need/desire to take them leading to incoherence.

Cocaine doesn't make you incoherent, in fact it increases clarity and your speed of thinking. Dr. Williiam Halstead who revolutionized surgery was a coke addict, Steve Jobs said LSD was "one of the two or three most important things I have done in life.", Freud considered cocaine a "wonder drug", and Thomas Edison was addicted to Vin Mariani, a Bordeaux wine treated with coca leaves.  As I said before, your perception of all drugs as having the same neurological effects as alcohol is completely wrong.

QuoteSo some folks take drugs to hallucinate in ways that just being a normal alkie or junkie can't experience?

Yes. See the above.

QuoteI will take your word and experience on how drugs can be great. I'll pass.

Far as LSD goes for you, that's probably a good idea.  Looking into your unconscious mind would likely lead you to a very bad trip.  You might discover what a complete asshole you are.


RE

Quote from: RE on Jun 06, 2026, 12:01 AM

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 05, 2026, 05:09 PMI don't understand the need/desire to take them leading to incoherence.

Cocaine doesn't make you incoherent, in fact it increases clarity and your speed of thinking.

I'll take your word for it. And that a highly addictive drug has that capability as well.

Quote from: REDr. Williiam Halstead who revolutionized surgery was a coke addict, Steve Jobs said LSD was "one of the two or three most important things I have done in life.", Freud considered cocaine a "wonder drug", and Thomas Edison was addicted to Vin Mariani, a Bordeaux wine treated with coca leaves.  As I said before, your perception of all drugs as having the same neurological effects as alcohol is completely wrong.

Well, with all these famous enthusiasts what could be wrong with it? I wonder what the 20-30k people a year who die from this wonderful substance think about it? How enlightened they felt, and wonderful, prior to...you know....dying from it.

I will grant that those who enjoy doing addictive and occasionally outright lethal drugs might..indeed...enjoy them. For some strange reason, maybe because we were lacking folks like your famous examples in the holler, they all just seemed to be stoned halfwits, dropouts and generally undesireable. Maybe there is a difference between backwoods dopers and the high and mighty kind that live in the cities?

Quote from: RE

QuoteI will take your word and experience on how drugs can be great. I'll pass.

Far as LSD goes for you, that's probably a good idea.

Far as ANY of them go, it is probably a good idea. Dad was a mean drunk, and as far as enlightenment through drugs, I've been quite happy with mountaintops, racetracks, and the occasional grand western vista.

Quote from: RELooking into your unconscious mind would likely lead you to a very bad trip.  You might discover what a complete asshole you are.
RE

That is a possibility. Or it might reveal the attitudes and capabilities that landed Joe Nobody from the holler where I am in life. Perhaps an asshole, as are you I would venture, but also someone who has arrived where I am today. As opposed to where some "enlightened" others have arrived. Not you of course, but those dead bodies left behind after folks are overly "enlightened" through the injestion of various chemical compounds.  To each their own is my motto.

Or you could take a trip on 50x Salvia and after you look down on the lizard skin covering your hand you can have a conversation with god.  No fooling him.  No way.  You might feel the life of insects even through the walls of the house.  Little sparks of life everywhere around you.  You can feel the presence of the demon in the lake who has no power over you.  And you can do all that in 15 minutes.

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 06, 2026, 06:40 AMI wonder what the 20-30k people a year who die from this wonderful substance think about it?

6000 people/year die in motorcycle crashes too.  At least with coke, it's only your own stupidity that causes the death.  On a bike, you risk other people's stupidity causing it.  In any event, all worthwhile things carry some risk.

Far as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Anyhow, as I said earlier, your attitude stems from childhood.  It's clearly a reaction to having an alcoholic father.  You never got over that.

RE

Quote from: K-Dog on Jun 06, 2026, 11:38 AMOr you could take a trip on 50x Salvia and after you look down on the lizard skin covering your hand you can have a conversation with god.  No fooling him.  No way.  You might feel the life of insects even through the walls of the house.  Little sparks of life everywhere around you.  You can feel the presence of the demon in the lake who has no power over you.  And you can do all that in 15 minutes.

Is a drug induced hallucination of having a conversation with God...real? But I understand drugs helping someone to believe it might be. In 15 minutes at Laguna Seca I can do maybe 14.2 laps and see God, watch my life flash before my eyes half a dozen times, feel every bump in the asphalt in turn 6 on my left knee, launch my stomache into my throat entering the Corkscrew, and not give a crap about insects or the walls of my house. No demons involved in this high at all.....just a pure celebration of life in an all natural way. Maybe folks take drugs to see God because doing it my way requires, you know, DOING something other than popping a pill?

Quote from: RE on Jun 06, 2026, 11:52 AM

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 06, 2026, 06:40 AMI wonder what the 20-30k people a year who die from this wonderful substance think about it?

6000 people/year die in motorcycle crashes too.

Indeed. And car crashes. And falling down stairs. Drowning. Robbery gone bad. Pulling a gun on the wrong person (seen this one before). The causes of death are indeed legion. But none of these are voluntary acts(well, pulling a gun on someone might be). Taking drugs to get high and dying is a choice. Robbers don't plan on dying in the act of robbing...but it happens. The suicidal might drive a car knowing they plan on using it to kill themselves, but normal folk don't. The suicidal might swim knowing they can't...and drown. Pulling a gun on the wrong person is a voluntary act....that can turn out poorly depending on who you are pulling on.

Come on RE, you aren't required to demonstrate that statistics can lie, and liars use statistics in front of someone who can spot either or both a mile away.

Quote from: REAt least with coke, it's only your own stupidity that causes the death.

If by "stupidity" you mean "stupid enough to do dangerous drugs that might have corrupted you ability to know when to stop" then I agree with you.

Quote from: REOn a bike, you risk other people's stupidity causing it.

That is called life. Be it an idiot cager killing you, or getting hit by space junk falling from the sky. In neither case is it you deciding that "Hey! Lets do some cool drugs today and hope I don't overdose, or my dealer didn't substitute in a little too much drain cleaner to the mix". It isn't as though hard illegal drugs are FDA approved now, is it?

Quote from: REIn any event, all worthwhile things carry some risk.

LIFE carrys risk, and is indeed worthwhile. And then there are all things we do in life that raise or lower our chances of making it to the average or median age before croaking more naturally.

Hunter Thompson and reaching the finish line....best quote ever. He got it. Drugs, motorcycles, parachuting without a parachute, whatever. We all choose our brand of risk, but I think Hunter had the idea right.

So I let the drug users use drugs. And I hope that I don't low side in Turn 6 at Laguna and slide off the cliff awaiting on the outside of the corner.

Quote from: REFar as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Outstanding! I imagine that is why it is legal in all 50 states. Oops...wait....for some strange reason....it isn't. You make it sound so safe....I wonder why it isn't legal? All those straight laced folks just being a drag on a happy go lucky drug culture types?

Quote from: REAnyhow, as I said earlier, your attitude stems from childhood.  It's clearly a reaction to having an alcoholic father.  You never got over that.
RE

Thank you for that Mr Dr of Psychology RE. I remember when you tried to play geologist once, it was a riot. At least now with AI you could probably do better I bet. I might agree with your amateur shrink routine though, but only because I do analytics for a living, and logically, it seems reasonable that some of my life choices and current behavior stem from childhood events. I imagine a Shrink AI would say the same thing. 

But I don't consider choosing to avoid illegal drugs to be an attitude. It is a decision. And dad did booze, he wasn't a doper. So it isnt' apropos anyway, unless I just wanted to be some alky in the bag all the time. Which obviously I didn't.

So while maybe I can agree that a little of some part of each of us probably can be traced back that far, it doesn't necessary express itself as much as some might think. But a little...somewhere...somehow..maybe. 

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 08, 2026, 05:34 PMIf by "stupidity" you mean "stupid enough to do dangerous drugs that might have corrupted you ability to know when to stop" then I agree with you.

Stupid is not knowing what dosage has potential to kill you.  Cocaine doesn't corrupt your ability to know that.  Heroin might, but if it made you that stupid, you already took too much, so you were stupid before you loaded the syringe.  In any event, Heroin is not on the list of drugs I find worthwhile.

QuoteIt isn't as though hard illegal drugs are FDA approved now, is it?

Ever listen to the list of potential side effects of FDA approved drugs?  Not even taken at overdose levels, DEATH is often on the list.

QuoteHunter Thompson and reaching the finish line....best quote ever. He got it. Drugs, motorcycles, parachuting without a parachute, whatever. We all choose our brand of risk, but I think Hunter had the idea right.

QuoteBut I don't consider choosing to avoid illegal drugs to be an attitude. It is a decision. And dad did booze, he wasn't a doper.

Alcohol is a drug and it is physically addictive.  It's just a more commonly used form of "dope" that's legal.  Nothing wrong with you decision not to use drugs, but your attitude is reflected in your writing about the reasons why.  Your use of pejoratives like "doper" and "alky" demonstrates disrespect toward those who do choose to use them.

Quote from: TDoS

Quote from: REFar as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Outstanding! I imagine that is why it is legal in all 50 states. Oops...wait....for some strange reason....it isn't. You make it sound so safe....I wonder why it isn't legal? All those straight laced folks just being a drag on a happy go lucky drug culture types?

Actually, it's currently being tested  for use in relieving symptoms of depression.



RE