[K-Dog]

Or you could take a trip on 50x Salvia and after you look down on the lizard skin covering your hand you can have a conversation with god.  No fooling him.  No way.  You might feel the life of insects even through the walls of the house.  Little sparks of life everywhere around you.  You can feel the presence of the demon in the lake who has no power over you.  And you can do all that in 15 minutes.

[RE]

I wonder what the 20-30k people a year who die from this wonderful substance think about it?

6000 people/year die in motorcycle crashes too.  At least with coke, it's only your own stupidity that causes the death.  On a bike, you risk other people's stupidity causing it.  In any event, all worthwhile things carry some risk.

Far as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Anyhow, as I said earlier, your attitude stems from childhood.  It's clearly a reaction to having an alcoholic father.  You never got over that.

RE

[TDoS]

Or you could take a trip on 50x Salvia and after you look down on the lizard skin covering your hand you can have a conversation with god.  No fooling him.  No way.  You might feel the life of insects even through the walls of the house.  Little sparks of life everywhere around you.  You can feel the presence of the demon in the lake who has no power over you.  And you can do all that in 15 minutes.

Is a drug induced hallucination of having a conversation with God...real? But I understand drugs helping someone to believe it might be. In 15 minutes at Laguna Seca I can do maybe 14.2 laps and see God, watch my life flash before my eyes half a dozen times, feel every bump in the asphalt in turn 6 on my left knee, launch my stomache into my throat entering the Corkscrew, and not give a crap about insects or the walls of my house. No demons involved in this high at all.....just a pure celebration of life in an all natural way. Maybe folks take drugs to see God because doing it my way requires, you know, DOING something other than popping a pill?

[TDoS]

I wonder what the 20-30k people a year who die from this wonderful substance think about it?

6000 people/year die in motorcycle crashes too.

Indeed. And car crashes. And falling down stairs. Drowning. Robbery gone bad. Pulling a gun on the wrong person (seen this one before). The causes of death are indeed legion. But none of these are voluntary acts(well, pulling a gun on someone might be). Taking drugs to get high and dying is a choice. Robbers don't plan on dying in the act of robbing...but it happens. The suicidal might drive a car knowing they plan on using it to kill themselves, but normal folk don't. The suicidal might swim knowing they can't...and drown. Pulling a gun on the wrong person is a voluntary act....that can turn out poorly depending on who you are pulling on.

Come on RE, you aren't required to demonstrate that statistics can lie, and liars use statistics in front of someone who can spot either or both a mile away.

At least with coke, it's only your own stupidity that causes the death.

If by "stupidity" you mean "stupid enough to do dangerous drugs that might have corrupted you ability to know when to stop" then I agree with you.

On a bike, you risk other people's stupidity causing it.

That is called life. Be it an idiot cager killing you, or getting hit by space junk falling from the sky. In neither case is it you deciding that "Hey! Lets do some cool drugs today and hope I don't overdose, or my dealer didn't substitute in a little too much drain cleaner to the mix". It isn't as though hard illegal drugs are FDA approved now, is it?

In any event, all worthwhile things carry some risk.

LIFE carrys risk, and is indeed worthwhile. And then there are all things we do in life that raise or lower our chances of making it to the average or median age before croaking more naturally.

Hunter Thompson and reaching the finish line....best quote ever. He got it. Drugs, motorcycles, parachuting without a parachute, whatever. We all choose our brand of risk, but I think Hunter had the idea right.

So I let the drug users use drugs. And I hope that I don't low side in Turn 6 at Laguna and slide off the cliff awaiting on the outside of the corner.

Far as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Outstanding! I imagine that is why it is legal in all 50 states. Oops...wait....for some strange reason....it isn't. You make it sound so safe....I wonder why it isn't legal? All those straight laced folks just being a drag on a happy go lucky drug culture types?

Anyhow, as I said earlier, your attitude stems from childhood.  It's clearly a reaction to having an alcoholic father.  You never got over that.
RE

Thank you for that Mr Dr of Psychology RE. I remember when you tried to play geologist once, it was a riot. At least now with AI you could probably do better I bet. I might agree with your amateur shrink routine though, but only because I do analytics for a living, and logically, it seems reasonable that some of my life choices and current behavior stem from childhood events. I imagine a Shrink AI would say the same thing. 

But I don't consider choosing to avoid illegal drugs to be an attitude. It is a decision. And dad did booze, he wasn't a doper. So it isnt' apropos anyway, unless I just wanted to be some alky in the bag all the time. Which obviously I didn't.

So while maybe I can agree that a little of some part of each of us probably can be traced back that far, it doesn't necessary express itself as much as some might think. But a little...somewhere...somehow..maybe. 

[RE]

If by "stupidity" you mean "stupid enough to do dangerous drugs that might have corrupted you ability to know when to stop" then I agree with you.

Stupid is not knowing what dosage has potential to kill you.  Cocaine doesn't corrupt your ability to know that.  Heroin might, but if it made you that stupid, you already took too much, so you were stupid before you loaded the syringe.  In any event, Heroin is not on the list of drugs I find worthwhile.

It isn't as though hard illegal drugs are FDA approved now, is it?

Ever listen to the list of potential side effects of FDA approved drugs?  Not even taken at overdose levels, DEATH is often on the list.

Hunter Thompson and reaching the finish line....best quote ever. He got it. Drugs, motorcycles, parachuting without a parachute, whatever. We all choose our brand of risk, but I think Hunter had the idea right.

But I don't consider choosing to avoid illegal drugs to be an attitude. It is a decision. And dad did booze, he wasn't a doper.

Alcohol is a drug and it is physically addictive.  It's just a more commonly used form of "dope" that's legal.  Nothing wrong with you decision not to use drugs, but your attitude is reflected in your writing about the reasons why.  Your use of pejoratives like "doper" and "alky" demonstrates disrespect toward those who do choose to use them.

Far as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.

Outstanding! I imagine that is why it is legal in all 50 states. Oops...wait....for some strange reason....it isn't. You make it sound so safe....I wonder why it isn't legal? All those straight laced folks just being a drag on a happy go lucky drug culture types?

Actually, it's currently being tested  for use in relieving symptoms of depression.



RE

[TDoS]

If by "stupidity" you mean "stupid enough to do dangerous drugs that might have corrupted you ability to know when to stop" then I agree with you.

Stupid is not knowing what dosage has potential to kill you.

Or not caring because as an addict you are already in stupid land.

It isn't as though hard illegal drugs are FDA approved now, is it?

Ever listen to the list of potential side effects of FDA approved drugs?  Not even taken at overdose levels, DEATH is often on the list.

I am familiar with over the counter med consequences. And I do listen to the potential side effects, as do my doctors. They moved my medication for high blood pressure around just 6 months ago, watching out for potential side effects related to my kidneys.

How many happy consumers of illegal drugs have a doctor making sure they don't go overboard, mixing and matching their favorite hallucinagins?

But I don't consider choosing to avoid illegal drugs to be an attitude. It is a decision. And dad did booze, he wasn't a doper.

Alcohol is a drug and it is physically addictive.

Indeed. Such is the way of drugs.  Good thing I have a medical professional keeping an eye on mine!

But your attitude is reflected in your writing about the reasons why.  Your use of pejoratives like "doper" and "alky" demonstrates disrespect toward those who do choose to use them.

Indeed it does. Very observant. Just as I use the pejorative "cager" for those who are. And "Happy McPeaksters" for those who don't know geology.

You've got an ego the size of the Moon, do you really want to pretend that I am the only one here who looks down in one way or another on the normies?

Far as LSD goes, virtually nobody dies and it's non-addictive.
[and] Actually, it's currently being tested  for use in relieving symptoms of depression.

Outstanding! And with experience and degrees in and around geology and engineering, practical experience using both, a professional understanding of statistics and probabalistic modeling, peak oilers would never have been misled by various internet experts and PhDs. Give me some more time, maybe I could figure out LSD as well.

But until it is figured out...it isn't figured out. Like peak oil.

[RE]

Or not caring because as an addict you are already in stupid land.

Exactly!  Thus drugs perform an important social function.  The overdosers win a Darwin Award. 😀

How many happy consumers of illegal drugs have a doctor making sure they don't go overboard, mixing and matching their favorite hallucinagins?

You really need a doctor for this?  Doctors just follow political guidelines with Schedule A illegal drugs.  If you wanna understand the interactions, you need to know the biochemistry of how the drug works.

Indeed. Such is the way of drugs.  Good thing I have a medical professional keeping an eye on mine!

See the above.  Doctors just tell you taking illegal drugs are bad for you.  Then they go home and take them themselves. lol.

You've got an ego the size of the Moon, do you really want to pretend that I am the only one here who looks down in one way or another on the normies?

I look down on Stupid People, not Drug Users.  The two sets are not identical.

But until it is figured out...it isn't figured out. Like peak oil.

You have been warned before about dragging Peak Oil into unrelated discussions.  I gave you a pass on this post, next time I will trash it.

RE

[TDoS]

Or not caring because as an addict you are already in stupid land.

Exactly!  Thus drugs perform an important social function.  The overdosers win a Darwin Award. 😀

While something of a dystopian view....I can't say I disagree with it. I believe in personal freedom, and that includes folks doing whatever stupid shit they want even if it kills them.

How many happy consumers of illegal drugs have a doctor making sure they don't go overboard, mixing and matching their favorite hallucinagins?

You really need a doctor for this?

I don't. But approximately half of humans are below average in intelligence and there is an argument to be made that they certainly do. 

Doctors just follow political guidelines with Schedule A illegal drugs.  If you wanna understand the interactions, you need to know the biochemistry of how the drug works.

Half of humans are below average in intelligience, meaning they can't necessarily read, let alone even know what biochemistry is, let alone chemical interactions.

You've got an ego the size of the Moon, do you really want to pretend that I am the only one here who looks down in one way or another on the normies?

I look down on Stupid People, not Drug Users.  The two sets are not identical.

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise? So when looking down on stupid people....well.....do I actually have to say it?

[K-Dog]

BBC.COM 2026-06-09

'Please send help': Crew's distress call after ship hit by US missile

The Indian crew of a sanctioned oil tanker urged authorities to "please help" after the ship was hit by a US missile off Oman on Monday, saying it was on fire and sinking in a distress call.

[RE]

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise?

It's probably higher than that.  Probably 90% of people who take drugs are stupid.  So are 90% of the people who don't take drugs.  Being of average intelligence is still pretty fucking stupid.    As criteria for identifying stupid people, drug use fails because the vast majority of Homo Saps are stupid.  So making such a bet would itself be stupid, it's not a good discriminator.

RE

[TDoS]

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise?

It's probably higher than that.  Probably 90% of people who take drugs are stupid.

Well hot damn. We actually can agree on something. I say we start a clock, using a calendar most likely, and see what the frequency of it happening might be. A year? A decade? Who knows!

So are 90% of the people who don't take drugs.

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

Being of average intelligence is still pretty fucking stupid. 

To folks on the high side of the distribution, sure it looks that way. And those of us on that high side find other ways to differentiate ourselves from even that herd. I am quite familiar with how that works, if only because I can name the folks, and their qualifications, of those who can do it to me.

As criteria for identifying stupid people, drug use fails because the vast majority of Homo Saps are stupid.  So making such a bet would itself be stupid, it's not a good discriminator.
RE

Again, a personal perspective based on relative differences. My preference runs towards demonstrable critical thinking in real time, internal consistency in thought processes, the usual stuff. My preferences for sorting the herd, might not do yours.

However, as I said before (on behalf of those of us on the high side of the herd) it turns out that destroying multiple decades of accepted research on some topic can sure accelerate others noticing. Don't even give a crap what your education is at that point. But, amusingly, they tag you with the Piled Higher and Deeper moniker in front of your name anyway. 

To each their own.

[K-Dog]

I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles.

That's big of you, would you like thanks?  If you want thanks keep trying.

Smart people will experiment with mind altering substances.  Smart people however will not continue to do so after the novelty fades.  Smart people know there is no 'there' there after initially experiencing the altered mind perspective.  It becomes an intense nothingburger in a way.

There are lessons to be learned by the mind altering experience, but the truth is there is really not much there to learn after you break on through to the other side.  A novice learns that perceptions can't be counted on.  Perhaps you learn to beware of absolute truth, truth is indeed out there, but that does not mean you have the ability to know it.  It may induce humility in the right person.  Not to be confused with the person who needs it. 

That is a valuable lesson which substances can indeed induce.  You learn that you are not the center of the universe.  That is a good thing.  There are a handful of very profound insights which may be revealed to an altered mind.  But seeds do not grow on barren ground, and the lessons depend on the novelty, which is soon gone. 

Continued drug use embraces narcissism.  It is high on the self-indulgence list.  It is as 'high' on it as you can get.  Pun intended.  Some lessons once learned should not need repetition.

An altered mind can be a useful pit stop, but it is not a vocation.

People without ambition will not agree.

[RE]

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

I never claimed to be the only one with functional synapses.  Nor is the precise percentage of stupid  people important.  Relative to me, it's a lot higher than 90%.😁  Relative to you, it might be 70%. lol. The salient point is my experience has been that stupid people are randomly distributed between drug users and non-users.  I encounter them in equal frequency regardless of their choice.  Here, we are all smart, most of us are drug users of one sort or another.  AFAIK, you are the only one who abstains from both drugs and alcohol.  This tells us nothing about stupid people, since none are represented here.

RE

[TDoS]

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

I never claimed to be the only one with functional synapses.

True, you do something more interesting. If you think it, you being above average intelligence, you consider your statements on the topic to be as informed as someone who has done it. I can see it working in some specialties. But certainly not others. Example...."As a child I learned to shoot a gun at camp....now I will explain sniper tactics to survivalists at peakoil.com". You were quite specific in the hows and whys of using a firearm against non-paper targets. At specific long ranges. Someone with real life experience at such things might find such an assumption of imbued real world performance from some practice as a child as....an interesting perspective.

It isn't always about functioning synapses. It is about projecting a small, perhaps barely related experience, to mastery. Very intelligent people do this all the time and can get away with it. Until they run into a person who has earned their mastery the real way. By doing it.

Shooting is a perishable skill. I know that from experience. But as I mentioned earlier (perhaps erased, but it was during the Charlie Kirk posting and someone's comment on the precision necessary to make such an easy shot and I mentioned my return to long range shooting) the experience is still experience. If the mind is still there, even if the skills have faded, the experience sticks. Sometimes, so does the skill itself.

Same with claimed surgical skills. Motorcycle skills from riding around NYC and hanging out with folks pretending to be Hardly Ableson bad asses, or Ricky Racers perhaps?

You have provided many examples of your deductive reasoning, obviously.

Nor is the precise percentage of stupid  people important.  Relative to me, it's a lot higher than 90%.😁

You act like you are alone at that level. You aren't. 90th percentile on the last normal distribution I checked only  equates to maybe an IQ of 120. You sure you don't want to change that percentile? 😂I would have guessed that you would give yourself more credit....like what my sister and I have at least. She stayed in the holler, married a good guy, and never used it in the least. Her older brother did...better.

Relative to you, it might be 70%. lol.

lol indeed, let me know how far off AI is.

On a standard intelligence (IQ) distribution, the 90th percentile corresponds to an IQ score of approximately 120. This means an individual with this score performs better than 90% of the general population.

The salient point is my experience has been that stupid people are randomly distributed between drug users and non-users.

Could be. I can't refute your experience with using drugs or the kind of people you were using with.

I encounter them in equal frequency regardless of their choice.

I encounter them at low frequency if at all. I attribute this discrepancy to the difference between the kind of people we associate with.

Here, we are all smart, most of us are drug users of one sort or another.  AFAIK, you are the only one who abstains from both drugs and alcohol.  This tells us nothing about stupid people, since none are represented here.
RE

Indeed. I will agree that as we both, aside from this site, have hung out with different folks and different classes of people over our lives. And have developed different ideas on drug users. You, as someone familiar with such folks and are around them far more than I am, see them evenly distributed between smart and stupid. I, as a non-user....don't see users much....but I also don't see stupid folks very often. Or users. So my perspective is different. Correlations matter in statistics.

A selection bias problem perhaps. I would recommend improving the clientele you hang with, and seeing if the ratio changes to a ratio more similar to mine. I understand that you are limited in this regard however.

Another theory is that users naturally mix with other users. You mix with users, and see users as evenly distributed between smart or less smart. I was always a bummer at parties in high school or college because I didn't drink. Or smoke. Or do drugs or whatever. I rode motorcycles. Went to the range. And then discovered later in life that the folks I was learning from, then teaching, and then doing state of the art research for, were not users, and were generally all quite smart. As long as we can agree that the award of Piled higher and Deeper is some indicator of above average intelligence above the norm anyway.

[RE]

No, I'm not 90th percentile, but I do credit people who are 90th percentile as being reasonably smart.  Actual percentile?  99.97, 3 sd. Statistically, ~3 in 10,000 people are smarter than me.  I've met a few in my life, not many.  I make no claim of mastery of any topic, but I know a lot about many topics, make connections others don't and I can generally find solutions to problems other people find intractable.

On this particular topic, besides being  smart, I have a pretty thorough experience also. both my own and acquaintance with others.  So I think I can justifiably say I present a well informed opinion.

RE