[TDoS]

Or not caring because as an addict you are already in stupid land.

Exactly!  Thus drugs perform an important social function.  The overdosers win a Darwin Award. 😀

While something of a dystopian view....I can't say I disagree with it. I believe in personal freedom, and that includes folks doing whatever stupid shit they want even if it kills them.

How many happy consumers of illegal drugs have a doctor making sure they don't go overboard, mixing and matching their favorite hallucinagins?

You really need a doctor for this?

I don't. But approximately half of humans are below average in intelligence and there is an argument to be made that they certainly do. 

Doctors just follow political guidelines with Schedule A illegal drugs.  If you wanna understand the interactions, you need to know the biochemistry of how the drug works.

Half of humans are below average in intelligience, meaning they can't necessarily read, let alone even know what biochemistry is, let alone chemical interactions.

You've got an ego the size of the Moon, do you really want to pretend that I am the only one here who looks down in one way or another on the normies?

I look down on Stupid People, not Drug Users.  The two sets are not identical.

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise? So when looking down on stupid people....well.....do I actually have to say it?

[K-Dog]

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[RE]

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise?

It's probably higher than that.  Probably 90% of people who take drugs are stupid.  So are 90% of the people who don't take drugs.  Being of average intelligence is still pretty fucking stupid.    As criteria for identifying stupid people, drug use fails because the vast majority of Homo Saps are stupid.  So making such a bet would itself be stupid, it's not a good discriminator.

RE

[TDoS]

You know what a Venn diagram is....want to bet an overlap of 70% between stupid and drug users wouldn't be a surprise?

It's probably higher than that.  Probably 90% of people who take drugs are stupid.

Well hot damn. We actually can agree on something. I say we start a clock, using a calendar most likely, and see what the frequency of it happening might be. A year? A decade? Who knows!

So are 90% of the people who don't take drugs.

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

Being of average intelligence is still pretty fucking stupid. 

To folks on the high side of the distribution, sure it looks that way. And those of us on that high side find other ways to differentiate ourselves from even that herd. I am quite familiar with how that works, if only because I can name the folks, and their qualifications, of those who can do it to me.

As criteria for identifying stupid people, drug use fails because the vast majority of Homo Saps are stupid.  So making such a bet would itself be stupid, it's not a good discriminator.
RE

Again, a personal perspective based on relative differences. My preference runs towards demonstrable critical thinking in real time, internal consistency in thought processes, the usual stuff. My preferences for sorting the herd, might not do yours.

However, as I said before (on behalf of those of us on the high side of the herd) it turns out that destroying multiple decades of accepted research on some topic can sure accelerate others noticing. Don't even give a crap what your education is at that point. But, amusingly, they tag you with the Piled Higher and Deeper moniker in front of your name anyway. 

To each their own.

[K-Dog]

I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles.

That's big of you, would you like thanks?  If you want thanks keep trying.

Smart people will experiment with mind altering substances.  Smart people however will not continue to do so after the novelty fades.  Smart people know there is no 'there' there after initially experiencing the altered mind perspective.  It becomes an intense nothingburger in a way.

There are lessons to be learned by the mind altering experience, but the truth is there is really not much there to learn after you break on through to the other side.  A novice learns that perceptions can't be counted on.  Perhaps you learn to beware of absolute truth, truth is indeed out there, but that does not mean you have the ability to know it.  It may induce humility in the right person.  Not to be confused with the person who needs it. 

That is a valuable lesson which substances can indeed induce.  You learn that you are not the center of the universe.  That is a good thing.  There are a handful of very profound insights which may be revealed to an altered mind.  But seeds do not grow on barren ground, and the lessons depend on the novelty, which is soon gone. 

Continued drug use embraces narcissism.  It is high on the self-indulgence list.  It is as 'high' on it as you can get.  Pun intended.  Some lessons once learned should not need repetition.

An altered mind can be a useful pit stop, but it is not a vocation.

People without ambition will not agree.

[RE]

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

I never claimed to be the only one with functional synapses.  Nor is the precise percentage of stupid  people important.  Relative to me, it's a lot higher than 90%.😁  Relative to you, it might be 70%. lol. The salient point is my experience has been that stupid people are randomly distributed between drug users and non-users.  I encounter them in equal frequency regardless of their choice.  Here, we are all smart, most of us are drug users of one sort or another.  AFAIK, you are the only one who abstains from both drugs and alcohol.  This tells us nothing about stupid people, since none are represented here.

RE

[TDoS]

Nonsense. That is just your ego speaking. You are on the high side of average, but you aren't the only one with functioning neurons at a level beyond that of Joe Average. And then some. I'll include even K-Dog in here on general principles based on nothing more than my personal experience dealing with EE's.

I never claimed to be the only one with functional synapses.

True, you do something more interesting. If you think it, you being above average intelligence, you consider your statements on the topic to be as informed as someone who has done it. I can see it working in some specialties. But certainly not others. Example...."As a child I learned to shoot a gun at camp....now I will explain sniper tactics to survivalists at peakoil.com". You were quite specific in the hows and whys of using a firearm against non-paper targets. At specific long ranges. Someone with real life experience at such things might find such an assumption of imbued real world performance from some practice as a child as....an interesting perspective.

It isn't always about functioning synapses. It is about projecting a small, perhaps barely related experience, to mastery. Very intelligent people do this all the time and can get away with it. Until they run into a person who has earned their mastery the real way. By doing it.

Shooting is a perishable skill. I know that from experience. But as I mentioned earlier (perhaps erased, but it was during the Charlie Kirk posting and someone's comment on the precision necessary to make such an easy shot and I mentioned my return to long range shooting) the experience is still experience. If the mind is still there, even if the skills have faded, the experience sticks. Sometimes, so does the skill itself.

Same with claimed surgical skills. Motorcycle skills from riding around NYC and hanging out with folks pretending to be Hardly Ableson bad asses, or Ricky Racers perhaps?

You have provided many examples of your deductive reasoning, obviously.

Nor is the precise percentage of stupid  people important.  Relative to me, it's a lot higher than 90%.😁

You act like you are alone at that level. You aren't. 90th percentile on the last normal distribution I checked only  equates to maybe an IQ of 120. You sure you don't want to change that percentile? 😂I would have guessed that you would give yourself more credit....like what my sister and I have at least. She stayed in the holler, married a good guy, and never used it in the least. Her older brother did...better.

Relative to you, it might be 70%. lol.

lol indeed, let me know how far off AI is.

On a standard intelligence (IQ) distribution, the 90th percentile corresponds to an IQ score of approximately 120. This means an individual with this score performs better than 90% of the general population.

The salient point is my experience has been that stupid people are randomly distributed between drug users and non-users.

Could be. I can't refute your experience with using drugs or the kind of people you were using with.

I encounter them in equal frequency regardless of their choice.

I encounter them at low frequency if at all. I attribute this discrepancy to the difference between the kind of people we associate with.

Here, we are all smart, most of us are drug users of one sort or another.  AFAIK, you are the only one who abstains from both drugs and alcohol.  This tells us nothing about stupid people, since none are represented here.
RE

Indeed. I will agree that as we both, aside from this site, have hung out with different folks and different classes of people over our lives. And have developed different ideas on drug users. You, as someone familiar with such folks and are around them far more than I am, see them evenly distributed between smart and stupid. I, as a non-user....don't see users much....but I also don't see stupid folks very often. Or users. So my perspective is different. Correlations matter in statistics.

A selection bias problem perhaps. I would recommend improving the clientele you hang with, and seeing if the ratio changes to a ratio more similar to mine. I understand that you are limited in this regard however.

Another theory is that users naturally mix with other users. You mix with users, and see users as evenly distributed between smart or less smart. I was always a bummer at parties in high school or college because I didn't drink. Or smoke. Or do drugs or whatever. I rode motorcycles. Went to the range. And then discovered later in life that the folks I was learning from, then teaching, and then doing state of the art research for, were not users, and were generally all quite smart. As long as we can agree that the award of Piled higher and Deeper is some indicator of above average intelligence above the norm anyway.

[RE]

No, I'm not 90th percentile, but I do credit people who are 90th percentile as being reasonably smart.  Actual percentile?  99.97, 3 sd. Statistically, ~3 in 10,000 people are smarter than me.  I've met a few in my life, not many.  I make no claim of mastery of any topic, but I know a lot about many topics, make connections others don't and I can generally find solutions to problems other people find intractable.

On this particular topic, besides being  smart, I have a pretty thorough experience also. both my own and acquaintance with others.  So I think I can justifiably say I present a well informed opinion.

RE

[K-Dog]

I think I am a mere centurion.  One in a hundred.  The dirt on the bottom of a shoe.

[RE]

I think I am a mere centurion.  One in a hundred.  The dirt on the bottom of a shoe.

Plenty smart enough,  and you have the added and VERY important quality of having CFS(Common Fucking Sense), which many very smart people lack.  1:100 puts your IQ at 135, which I would guess to be about right.  I come in at ~155 on Wechsler (most common), although I have tested higher on MABII.  I don't buy scores over 160 on any test, there aren't enough people who score that high to properly norm the test.

RE

[TDoS]

I make no claim of mastery of any topic, but I know a lot about many topics, make connections others don't and I can generally find solutions to problems other people find intractable.

I don't doubt this statement. I really liked your explanation of genes previously. Perhaps the only difference between us comes down to a peculiar characteristic.....an ability perhaps, as opposed to raw intelligence.

I make a claim of being a polymath only within a small set of topics, make connections others can't and I can generally find solutions to problems that other people find intractable. I then deliver a result. Results, as it turns out, can be quite lucrative. A small difference really, but on such small things can a life turn.

On this particular topic, besides being  smart, I have a pretty thorough experience also both my own and acquaintance with others.  So I think I can justifiably say I present a well informed opinion.
RE

We are all older here, and have pretty thorough experience, on our own, and via acquitance with others. I would consider your opinion generally more informed than not (dependning on topic), yes. Particularly if the obvious biases are removed, but that can be done relatively easily, and they aren't as hard coded into your doom views as most.

I can present  well informed opinion. In my world it is mostly referred to as analysis. Sometimes I choose to make them more than well informed. Those are designed to be irrefutable. Such is science.

[TDoS]

I think I am a mere centurion.  One in a hundred.  The dirt on the bottom of a shoe.

Did you think this before or after consuming mind altering hallucinogens?

[RE]

I didn't have any trouble producing results back in the day.  I just didn't like the job.  I didn't like academia much either, I was just good at it.  Mainly, I didn't like the society, from the time I was old enough to have 2 sets of friends, the boys I played futbol on Ipanema Beach with from the favela and the boys I went to school with from the FSoA Embassy diplomatic corps.  I was already a socialist by the time I returned from Rio at 10.  I positively hated Nixon and Vietnam.  I've been disgusted by the politics, consumerism and the plastic world of Big Yellow Taxi my whole life.  So I dropped out of it and did what I liked.  I coached a lot of good gymmies along the way.  It was fun.

RE

[K-Dog]

I think I am a mere centurion.  One in a hundred.  The dirt on the bottom of a shoe.

Did you think this before or after consuming mind altering hallucinogens?

The fish oil has probably done more good for my thinking than anything else.  Upgraded cognitive abilities.  Send me the T-shirt.

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[TDoS]

I didn't have any trouble producing results back in the day.  I just didn't like the job.  I didn't like academia much either, I was just good at it.

Oh...there are results, and then there are results. And me, I can't do academia. Research no problem, but academia is something else entirely. It is one of the reasons I find it so amusing when, based on results, they automatically think I am one of them. Doesn't take much to dupe them. 

I was already a socialist by the time I returned from Rio at 10.

Well now that is interesting. Did you know at that age the word for what you were, or did that come later.

I positively hated Nixon and Vietnam.  I've been disgusted by the politics, consumerism and the plastic world of Big Yellow Taxi my whole life.

Instilled by an early family life among the well off?

So I dropped out of it and did what I liked.  I coached a lot of good gymmies along the way.  It was fun.
RE

We each measure our results in different ways. I never dropped out, arguably, I never entered anything to drop out of.