[K-Dog]

Javier Milei now runs a corner of the world.

Milei has made it legal for employers to pay their employees in meat or milk.  No shit. 

And Klaus Schwab at the World Economic Forum wants to make sweet love to Milei.  Tesla CEO Elon Musk praised self-proclaimed 'anarcho-capitalist' Argentinian President Javier Milei on Thursday for supporting free markets and denouncing socialism as a 'threat to the West' at Davos during his visit abroad.

Milei told the World Economic Forum (WEF) that socialism is a phenomenon that generates poverty. "Free enterprise capitalism is the only tool we have to end hunger and poverty," he went on to say.

[RE]

Milei has made it legal for employers to pay their employees in meat or milk.  No shit.

In other words, he has legalized slavery.

How are the folks supposed to pay their rent?  I guess in meat or milk?

Did he establish a minimum wage?  How many kilos/hour of meat or liters/hour of milk do you get?

OK, realistically, this law is directed at the ag workers in Argentina's cattle industry probably because the companies are short of cash to pay the cowboys and milkmaids so he figures to keep the farms staffed this way so the owners don't go out of bizness.  So these workers probably also are provided housing, they sleep in the barn with the cows.

This is pretty much how cowboys used to be paid out on the trail, they culled the beef and Cookie made stew in the Chuck Wagon, then they all sat around the fire and slept out under the stars.  They got some cash at the end of the trail when the cattle was sold at market.

Thing is, trail riding pretty much went out with the railroads, the cows get to market riding on trains in boxcars, competing for floor space with refugees. lol.  Which is what these ag workers are going to do after not very long if they don't get some cash along with a ration of meat and milk.  It's a longer ride from Argentina to the TX border than from Guatemala, but I suspect they can make the trip in a couple of months.

Argentina's economy is totally in the toilet again, and Javier got himself elected on the promise he would Dollarize the economy.  The only problem there is there are not enough dollars floating around to pay people with, thus he has come up with this idiotic solution to pay ag workers.  It's not gonna help in Buenos Aires though, since the employers there don't have a supply of cows around to pay their workers with.

I wonder if Ferfal will start blogging again?  He was the blogger who got famous during the 2002 economic crisis down there.  Looks like they are in for another round of mayhem.  I seriously doubt paying people in hamburgers is going to get them back on their feet.  I know the IMF will not take them to repay the loans, they won't even take Filet Mignon.  I give Javier 2 years max before he is deposed.

Stand by in the Sanctuary Cities for a wave of Argentinians to follow the Venezuelans.  Floyd Bennet Airfield is full, but there are still runways at LaGuardia and JFK they can set tents up on.

RE

[K-Dog]

Maybe he can call his new currency bite-coin.



Don't eat any chocolate wrapped in gold foil coins left over from Christmas. You might need them to buy food?

[K-Dog]

Maybe he can call his new currency bite-coin.



Don't eat any chocolate wrapped in gold foil coins left over from Christmas. You might need them to buy food someday?

As much as chocolate costs now it could be a means of exchange.

[TDoS]

All wars are Banksters wars. It all starts with the money though.  Always.
RE

Well..money might always be involved here and there...because it is involved in everything really. Sort of like saying "it is always the fault of carbon based life forms!".
I'll grant that money is in everything...but no, some wars take a little more to get it started.

[RE]

Well..money might always be involved here and there...because it is involved in everything really. Sort of like saying "it is always the fault of carbon based life forms!".
I'll grant that money is in everything...but no, some wars take a little more to get it started.

I presume that is Pearl Harbor?  Why do you think the Japanese bombed there?  Because the FSoA was blockading them from getting coal and oil to pursue their war on China, which they were doing to grab Chinese wealth.

Saying it "starts" with money doesn't refer to an event.  What I mean is that the root cause is money, which is a proxy for resources.  So another way to say it is all wars are resource wars.

RE

[RE]

As much as chocolate costs now it could be a means of exchange.

Food which is compact and long lasting works great as money, especially when in short supply.

In Feudal Japan, the main unit of money was 1 Koku, which represented the amount of rice to feed a family of 4 for 1 year.  Samurai were paid in Koku based on their rank and how many samurai they led and servants salaries.  Hatamoto, a rank akin to a colonel might be paid 1000 koku/year, out of which he had to pay his soldiers and servants.  The liege lord in turn had to pay his taxes to the Shogun in Koku as well, and the amount depended on the size of his fiefdom.

This direct form of resource based money is very straightforward and a whole lot harder to manipulate than debt based money.  It's impractical to use in small amounts though for daily transactions, so you still need some form of token to use as currency.  The hard part there is finding something to use that is difficult to counterfeit.

RE

[K-Dog]

A ton of rice is hard to counterfeit, but if if is a more stable reservoir of value than what we have now it is a superior form of money.  Despite the bulk.  Like gold and silver used to be.  A stable reservoir of value is notably hard to define in a capitalist system.  Here the imaginary market becomes real.  'The market' kicks around the reservoir value of money like the ball in a football game.

Instead fiat money had to be invented to support our capitalist upper class who would have gone broke otherwise.

The cyclone that carried Dorothy to the Land of Oz represents the economic and political upheaval, the yellow brick road stands for the gold standard, and the silver shoes Dorothy inherits from the Wicked Witch of the East represents the pro-silver movement. When Dorothy is taken to the Emerald Palace before her audience with the Wizard she is led through seven passages and up three flights of stairs, a subtle reference to the Coinage Act of 1873.

Can fiat money work in a steady state economy?

[RE]

Can fiat money work in a steady state economy?

Well, first off, the economy isn't steady state since the resources the economy depends on are depleting.  At the same time, the population that depends on those resources is still increasing.  So there is a constant negative change of less per capita available.

As you know, I'm no fan of any money at all, but under these conditions I think demurrage money probably reflects the reality the best.  A demurrage charge of perhaps 3%  would increase the velocity of money through the economy and encourage the liquidation of assets and price discovery, which is a really big problem right now.  Mispriced assets are everywhere, from real estate to stocks, bonds and commodities.

Doubtful you could get a demmurrage currency issued by any current goobermint though, so it's a moot point.

RE

[TDoS]

I presume that is Pearl Harbor?  Why do you think the Japanese bombed there?

Because they needed the Pacific Fleet gone in order to steal oil and materials from their neighbors. Sort of like Hitler, except in Asia. But money wasn't why America was in the war. It just chose not to sell stuff. Important stuff, but they chose to not sell stuff they were perfectly allowed to not sell. There was no more requirement that the US sell things they don't want to to the Japanese then there was for us to sell nuclear weapons to China after 1945. An economic decision, both scenarios. Money involved in both, no requirement it leads to wars. So money probably isn't the overriding factor. The Chinese haven't blown up any American military bases in Asia for us embargoing them going on 75+ years.   

Saying it "starts" with money doesn't refer to an event. 

Well, that is a caveat after the original claim. Which is why absolute claims are dicey in terms of accuracy. But they sound definitive and cool.

What I mean is that the root cause is money, which is a proxy for resources.  So another way to say it is all wars are resource wars.
RE

And the root cause of money, whether it causes some things, but not necessarily others, is because bipedal carbon based lifeforms suck. There is the common denominator for you. It isn't as though money is the be all and end all...when American Indians were migrating out of Western Canada and headed down ultimately to the American Soutwest they were happily murdering and killing for better lands and water all along the way.

Do you think it was all because of wampum? 

[RE]

"Choosing not to sell stuff" is still about money, and Japanese stealing from the Chinese is about money and Germans stealing from France is about money.  The reason we embargoed the Japanese was because they were allied with the Germans who were stealing from the French who were our allies.  It's STILL all about the money friend.

Far as "wampum" is concerned, beads aren't money they are a barter item.  Fact is one of the things Europeans did was to outlaw Potlach economies run by the Pacific tribes in order to force them to use money.

And yes, the Indian Wars were all about money, the money the land the natives lived on was worth for the Europeans to steal.  Remember, resources is what money is proxy for, but you ignored that to continue this exercise.

Do you make these ridiculous arguments because you are bored or something?

RE

[K-Dog]

Can fiat money work in a steady state economy?

Well, first off, the economy isn't steady state since the resources the economy depends on are depleting.  At the same time, the population that depends on those resources is still increasing.  So there is a constant negative change of less per capita available.

As you know, I'm no fan of any money at all, but under these conditions I think demurrage money probably reflects the reality the best.  A demurrage charge of perhaps 3%  would increase the velocity of money through the economy and encourage the liquidation of assets and price discovery, which is a really big problem right now.  Mispriced assets are everywhere, from real estate to stocks, bonds and commodities.

Doubtful you could get a demmurrage currency issued by any current goobermint though, so it's a moot point.

RE

Demurrage, I had to look it up.  In a sense this is how money has been in America for about 15 years. We had 0.015 % bank interest as the norm.  Now because inflation returned banks had to start paying 5% which is what it should be for an average Joe trying to save money.

In those 15 years the rich made out big.  They are richer.  In the same period average savings went nowhere.  Even at a paltry 3% in that much time savings would have doubled.  Demurrage would only be used to screw the average guy harder.

Nobody is getting rich at 5%, but it does reward savings.  In demurrage wouldn't everybody just run their credit cards to the max?  The average American would be in deep debt, yet those with the big money will find ways to keep what they have.  Big money did not have to lie dead at 0.015% for over a decade like average Joe money (mine) did.  Now my reward for having my savings pays for a meal or two a day.  Whoopie!

Taxes provide the advantage of demurrage, but the funny thing about that is rich people are very successful at avoiding taxes.  In America rich people have re-written our tax laws to screw the poor and average Joe.  The legacy of Ronald Ray-Gun.  Changing taxes to the way they were 1n 1950 would provide the same advantages.

Ideally my savings would be loaned out and the economic activity generated generates the interest.  I know the economy does not actually work that way any more.

But it is time the government take control of the money supply away from bankers.  Bankers have put way too much money into the world, making the value of what a normal person has next to worthless.

Clarify the American details for me, but in Great Britain if a person borrows from a bank, the bank simply creates the money loaned out of nothing, and as the money is paid back an equal amount of real money is destroyed EXCEPT FOR THE INTREST PAID.  Which the bank keeps.  The extra interest amounts to new money in circulation degrading the value of all the rest of the money in circulation.



Causing this.

Resulting in a new Royalty, with the old one doing just fine too.  The regular guy, who should really have a large part of the money in the system, is screwed.



The American equivalent.

[K-Dog]

Can fiat money work in a steady state economy?

Well, first off, the economy isn't steady state since the resources the economy depends on are depleting.  At the same time, the population that depends on those resources is still increasing.  So there is a constant negative change of less per capita available.

As you know, I'm no fan of any money at all, but under these conditions I think demurrage money probably reflects the reality the best.  A demurrage charge of perhaps 3%  would increase the velocity of money through the economy and encourage the liquidation of assets and price discovery, which is a really big problem right now.  Mispriced assets are everywhere, from real estate to stocks, bonds and commodities.

Doubtful you could get a demmurrage currency issued by any current goobermint though, so it's a moot point.

RE

Demurrage, I had to look it up.  In a sense this is how money has been in America for about 15 years. We had 0.015 % bank interest as the norm.  Now because inflation returned banks had to start paying 5% which is what it should be for an average Joe trying to save money.

In those 15 years the rich made out big.  They are richer.  In the same period average savings went nowhere.  Even at a paltry 3% in that much time savings would have doubled.  Demurrage would only be used to screw the average guy harder.

Nobody is getting rich at 5%, but it does reward savings.  In demurrage wouldn't everybody just run their credit cards to the max?  The average American would be in deep debt, yet those with the big money will find ways to keep what they have.  Big money did not have to lie dead at 0.015% for over a decade like average Joe money (mine) did.  Now my reward for having my savings pays for a meal or two a day.  Whoopie!

Taxes provide the advantage of demurrage, but the funny thing about that is rich people are very successful at avoiding taxes.  In America rich people have re-written our tax laws to screw the poor and average Joe.  The legacy of Ronald Ray-Gun.  Changing taxes to the way they were 1n 1950 would provide the same advantages.

Ideally my savings would be loaned out and the economic activity generated generates the interest.  I know the economy does not actually work that way any more.

But it is time the government take control of the money supply away from bankers.  Bankers have put way too much money into the world, making the value of what a normal person has next to worthless.

Clarify the American details for me, but in Great Britain if a person borrows from a bank, the bank simply creates the money loaned out of nothing, and as the money is paid back an equal amount of real money is destroyed EXCEPT FOR THE INTREST PAID.  Which the bank keeps.  The extra interest amounts to new money in circulation degrading the value of all the rest of the money in circulation.



Causing this.

Resulting in a new Royalty, with the old one doing just fine too.  The regular guy, who should really have a large part of the money in the system, is screwed.



The American equivalent.

And exactly how many years did Amazon get buy without paying ANY SALES TAXes?  Supplying the government with full access to all Amazon Web Servers in the world sure had it's advantages.

[K-Dog]

As you know, I'm no fan of any money at all,

The current system in the Seattle Area is experimenting with this.  People are walking into stores and walking out with what they need.  There is no law enforcement to stop them.

This will lead to a bad end.  People who actually have jobs and see this do not like it.  Can you wonder why?

Planning a life to get to work on time.  Taking care of the business of an * ordinary life.  This requires focus for which there should be reward.  Watching adult children who live extraordinary lives steal does not sit well with a normal commitment.

A lot of people are walking around confused.  Eliminate all money and one of them is going to walk into my grocery store and take all the chocolate.  The roaches who visit our store do take more than they need.  I see it every day.  All the chocolate would soon be gone.

Leaving none for me.  I work so I can buy some.  I am not working just for my health.  Though after a professional career, and reaching the generation of wisdom, and where work is somewhat optional for me.  Working in a warehouse does make me a bad-ass motherfucker.


* An ordinary life is not to be despised.  An ordinary life simply has social obligations like children and care of the infirm and elderly.  An exceptional life is that of a young man who is paid as well, or almost as well as an ordinary man, but who does not have the normal financial obligations of an ordinary man.  With young men this often leads to enough free time and excess cash that the infirm in the head easily find trouble.

[K-Dog]

American Indians were migrating out of Western Canada and headed down ultimately to the American Southwest

Do you know which tribes?

FYI I do not idolize or denigrate the character of the indigenous.  Some are wise and good in their own way.  And some like the horsemen on the steppes of Asia through the ages have been nothing less than satanic. 

I have roots that settled in no mans land between the Sioux and the Ojibwe.  Nobody from either tribe was allowed to kill anybody in this bit of land and my ancestor was also left alone under their rules.  He trapped, started a sawmill, and of course had a homestead.  He trapped extra game leaving it in in his traps for local Indians to eat as he made his rounds.  They could not afford steel traps of their own.

My family let indians hunt on 'their' land when other settlers were trying to starve them out.  They were Christian people who knew the natives were here first and that the only way for them to eat was to hunt.  Live and let live.  In their minds they had no right to stop this hunting.  When the Minnesota Indian wars started one of my ancestors had to be taken from his farm by force because he said he had nothing to fear from the Indians and that he was their friend.  A posse from town rode out to fetch him.

Turned out everybody was right.  The Sioux warriors who rode in were not local.  They killed every white man they met.  They did not ask the local Sioux who should be left alone.