Marxist Theory

[K-Dog]

Getting the basics is pretty easy.  Understanding the details and the connections to formal logic is harder.  Confusion results.  Some people even think dialectics is in conflict with formal logic.  That is not true.  Formal logic in dielectrics is a subset where system change becomes differential change in a way like algebra becomes part of calculus.

I know the study of dialectics is worth doing, it affects the way a person thinks and in a way that better adjusts me to reality.  Read a little of the theory and you feel a bit restless in a good way.

The concept of the 'negation of the negation' is slippery like the Stoic claim that "the obstacle becomes the way".  That concept was hard for me to get at first.  Now it is automatic for me to consider how adversity can be used to advantage.  To do other is foolish.

Things are always changing and if compassion is to spread, the class struggle can never end.  A study of Dialectical Materialism makes this obvious.

[RE]

I am a Groucho Marxist.    His dialectics are impeccable.

Re

[K-Dog]

We know you are a grouch, that's for sure. 

And here is another Marxist, one who can be smart.  Without being an ass.

[K-Dog]

The setting is Edwardian England.

As for those who rode with Harlow in the last coach, most of them, as has been already intimated, were men of similar character to himself. The greater number of them fairly good workmen and—unlike the boozers in Crass's coach—not yet quite heartbroken, but still continuing the hopeless struggle against poverty. These differed from Nimrod's lot inasmuch as they were not content. They were always complaining of their wretched circumstances, and found a certain kind of pleasure in listening to the tirades of the Socialists against the existing social conditions, and professing their concurrence with many of the sentiments expressed, and a desire to bring about a better state of affairs.

Most of them appeared to be quite sane, being able to converse intelligently on any ordinary subject without discovering any symptoms of mental disorder, and it was not until the topic of Parliamentary elections was mentioned that evidence of their insanity was forthcoming. It then almost invariably appeared that they were subject to the most extraordinary hallucinations and extravagant delusions, the commonest being that the best thing that the working people could do to bring about an improvement in their condition, was to continue to elect their Liberal and Tory employers to make laws for and to rule over them! At such times, if anyone ventured to point out to them that that was what they had been doing all their lives, and referred them to the manifold evidences that met them wherever they turned their eyes of its folly and futility, they were generally immediately seized with a paroxysm of the most furious mania, and were with difficulty prevented from savagely assaulting those who differed from them.

They were usually found in a similar condition of maniacal excitement for some time preceding and during a Parliamentary election, but afterwards they usually manifested that modification of insanity which is called melancholia. In fact they alternated between these two forms of the disease. During elections, the highest state of exalted mania; and at ordinary times—presumably as a result of reading about the proceedings in Parliament of the persons whom they had elected—in a state of melancholic depression, in their case an instance of hope deferred making the heart sick.

This condition occasionally proved to be the stage of transition into yet another modification of the disease—that known as dipsomania, the phase exhibited by Bill Bates and the Semi-drunk.

Yet another form of insanity was that shown by the Socialists. Like most of their fellow passengers in the last coach, the majority of these individuals appeared to be of perfectly sound mind. Upon entering into conversation with them one found that they reasoned correctly and even brilliantly. They had divided their favourite subject into three parts. First; an exact definition of the condition known as Poverty. Secondly; a knowledge of the causes of Poverty; and thirdly, a rational plan for the cure of Poverty. Those who were opposed to them always failed to refute their arguments, and feared, and nearly always refused, to meet them in fair fight—in open debate—preferring to use the cowardly and despicable weapons of slander and misrepresentation. The fact that these Socialists never encountered their opponents except to defeat them, was a powerful testimony to the accuracy of their reasonings and the correctness of their conclusions—and yet they were undoubtedly mad. One might converse with them for an indefinite time on the three divisions of their subject without eliciting any proofs of insanity, but directly one inquired what means they proposed to employ in order to bring about the adoption of their plan, they replied that they hoped to do so by reasoning with the others!

[K-Dog]

Wrong

Kohei Saito's degrowth rewrite of Marxist theory is not only incorrect — if taken seriously, it would lead to political disaster for both the socialist left and the environmental movement.Kohei Saito's degrowth rewrite of Marxist theory is not only incorrect — if taken seriously, it would lead to political disaster for both the socialist left and the environmental movement.

Kohei Saito's "Start From Scratch" Degrowth Communism

People have it tough, we need better arrangements.  There should be no argument about that, but there is.  The modern world of easy living has scrambled brains causing many to like where they are far too much.  Resulting in a bullshit article and excessive comfort with existing arrangements.

The world is in overshoot and to reduce the human footprint as it must be, it must be easier for people to get by.  Free health care, perhaps a basic income.  A social safety net that eliminates the need for dog eat dog living.  Dog eat dog living currently represents our social relations.  Such social relations cannot deal with overshoot.

workers in rich countries are participants in the "imperial mode of living"

The failure of socialists to unite against imperialism at the start of WWI made this clear.  Nationalism came first.  Then as now, the triumph of ownership seeks to destroy all culture.  Now as then, either socialism triumphs or desolation, depopulation and a vast cemetery lies before us.  The truth is ugly, and it hurts, but it is the truth.

[K-Dog]

History for those not afraid of reality.  America shares the history.  A video timeline.

[TDoS]

History for those not afraid of reality. 

I love the way you throw the gravitas into quotes in the way you post K-Dog. Your quote is great, and I can use it against peak oilers or reddit folks in an instant, it bestows authority regardless of its validity or topic.

Meanwhile, while the discussion of esoteric distinctions in politics that to the normal folk are pretty meaningless, do you have any references for how the ACP, once it gets past making better people out of less better people with its 10 step process, creates the socio-economic fabric....well...ANY socio-economic fabric?  From a current starting position of, say, the most powerful national economic, industrial, and military engine the world has ever seen? Replete with all the perspectives that current reside within this structure? 

Because I think we need to admit that America is one weird place, the cognitive dissonance involved in trying to understand the current extremes in thought and politics and whatnot is substantial.

If all good ACP party members, after following the 10 steps and becoming better people like you, how do they achieve that goal? What comes after the 10 Commandments in terms of achieving the wonderful lifestyle that being an outstanding member of the ACP has delivered to you?

There has to be more than this, right?

[K-Dog]

I'm not claiming to have all the answers.  I will claim a spot a few steps above ignorance, and ignorance is more common than not.  If that makes me arrogant so be it.  But you might not disagree since all it takes to be more informed than average is a well spent ten minutes, and the history of worker suppression is not taught by our current cultural hegemony.  Regarding history lets have some fun.  I announce a game.

What historical event is You-Tube suppressing?

I am not yet ready to lay down a hundred bucks to join Means TV to answer one question.  However if the diner were to receive a donation to cover the cost, I would sign the Diner up.  In all the time the Diner has been under my URL there has been only one donation and it comes nowhere near close enough to the means TV annual cost.  My $22.63 an hour at my part time job keeps the Diner on the outside of paywalls.  Perhaps I should be more generous, but all I see visiting this website are the surveillance bots that park on our URL 24-7.

It is fun to watch them become more active when I am here.  And I do not have to be online to know if they are here. 

There looks to be some sort of genocide caused by 'South Vietnam' that Americans are not supposed to know about.

Could the "Central Singapore Community Development Council" tell us the answer?  This foreign government administration zone watches us 24-7.   I checked, and they are watching now.  Nosy mofos, they must have a lot of answers since the Diner is actually useful to the administration of Singapore.  I can't imagine how it is, but apparently so.  And if so, they must be a library of collected facts.

It must be something like collecting body heat for power like in the Matrix.

[K-Dog]

History for those not afraid of reality. 

I love the way you throw the gravitas into quotes in the way you post K-Dog. Your quote is great, and I can use it against peak oilers or reddit folks in an instant, it bestows authority regardless of its validity or topic.

Meanwhile, while the discussion of esoteric distinctions in politics that to the normal folk are pretty meaningless, do you have any references for how the ACP, once it gets past making better people out of less better people with its 10 step process, creates the socio-economic fabric....well...ANY socio-economic fabric?  From a current starting position of, say, the most powerful national economic, industrial, and military engine the world has ever seen? Replete with all the perspectives that current reside within this structure? 

Because I think we need to admit that America is one weird place, the cognitive dissonance involved in trying to understand the current extremes in thought and politics and whatnot is substantial.

If all good ACP party members, after following the 10 steps and becoming better people like you, how do they achieve that goal? What comes after the 10 Commandments in terms of achieving the wonderful lifestyle that being an outstanding member of the ACP has delivered to you?

There has to be more than this, right?

The Ten Commandments of
Counterintelligence

• The First Commandment: Be Offensive
• The Second Commandment: Honor Your Professionals
• The Third Commandment: Own the Street
• The Fourth Commandment: Know Your History
• The Fifth Commandment: Do Not Ignore Analysis
• The Sixth Commandment: Do Not Be Parochial
• The Seventh Commandment: Train Your People
• The Eighth Commandment: Do Not Be Shoved Aside
• The Ninth Commandment: Do Not Stay Too Long
• The Tenth Commandment: Never Give Up

https://www.cia.gov/resources/csi/static/ten-commandments-of-counterintelligence.pdf

[TDoS]

I'm not claiming to have all the answers.  I will claim a spot a few steps above ignorance, and ignorance is more common than not.  If that makes me arrogant so be it.  But you might not disagree since all it takes to be more informed than average is a well spent ten minutes, and the history of worker suppression is not taught by our current cultural hegemony.  Regarding history lets have some fun.  I announce a game.

What historical event is You-Tube suppressing?

I click on the video, and I get a YouTube video on why Elon Musk wants to or ought to buy MSNBC or something like that. Between your lead in, and the screen shot from the video which shows to me as some younger female with black hair, I don't have a clue what Elon buying MSNBC has to do with historical suppressing.

So...I don't even know what particular game you mean.

I am not yet ready to lay down a hundred bucks to join Means TV to answer one question.  However if the diner were to receive a donation to cover the cost, I would sign the Diner up.  In all the time the Diner has been under my URL there has been only one donation and it comes nowhere near close enough to the means TV annual cost.  My $22.63 an hour at my part time job keeps the Diner on the outside of paywalls.  Perhaps I should be more generous, but all I see visiting this website are the surveillance bots that park on our URL 24-7.

Well, I understand the modern internet/economic consequences of not creating content that folks won't flock to. So good for you, keeping RE's broadcast to the world going without proper fundage. What do you want me to say, and is it part of the game you suggested somehow?

It is fun to watch them become more active when I am here.  And I do not have to be online to know if they are here.  There looks to be some sort of genocide caused by 'South Vietnam' that Americans are not supposed to know about.

And Elon and MSNBC are involved somehow?

Could the "Central Singapore Community Development Council" tell us the answer?  This foreign government administration zone watches us 24-7.  I checked, and they are watching now.  Nosy mofos, they must have a lot of answers since the Diner is actually useful to the administration of Singapore.  I can't imagine how it is, but apparently so.  And if so, they must be a library of collected facts.

It must be something like collecting body heat for power like in the Matrix.

I'll take your word for it. But how does it relate to Elon and MSNBC? I watched the front of the video and none of these topics were there.  The title of the video on your page says "How we smashed fascism in Vietnam". I don't know why I get Elon and MSNBC.

[K-Dog]

We moved on, try and keep up.

[TDoS]

We moved on, try and keep up.

Oh, I am aware of the issues of the two other geriatrics besides myself being extremely self referential when it comes to terms and concepts and whatnot. And video links not working because maybe the MIB were involved and wanted to distract me from the earth shattering boobtube video provided. But of the three of us slowly diminishing geriatrics in this club, I am the only one with zero desire to give a shit about the secret handshakes here in hobby time.

Today was a great Thanksgiving with family and kids, hope yours and REs was as well, and I will move along. Happy Thanksgiving to all us geriatrics. And all together now....The Slower The Dementia Gets Us, The Better!