Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 02, 2024, 12:46 AMRemember when the bullshit (advice spawned by a bullshitter) was to put all your eggs in a floating basket.

I believe you are referring to the "Sea Gypsy", Ray Jason who I interviwed a couple of times and is still out there blogging about a dystopian future world of obscenely rich rulers and a slave class fed on bug protein, with his solution of free people living on sailboats, as he has done for the last 30 years or so.

http://theseagypsyphilosopher.blogspot.com/

We referred to this whole idea as "Seasteading" which actually has captured the imagination of many people of the Libertarian ilk who long for a place free of Goobermint, which they want to set up in International Waters.  You can read all about that here:

https://free-cities.org/seasteading-the-movement-history-and-perspectives/



Both are nice but wholly unrealistic fantasies, although like with owning an RV as insurance against homelessness, if you can afford one a sailboat big enough to live on and capable of blue water voyaging is a nice insurance policy for leaving a failing country and going somewhere else that isn't quite so bad.  However, when you get anywhere, you're still going to need a passport and visa and jump through immigration hoops if you want to make it permanent.

You also need some sort of income, in most cases yachties who live this way are wealthy enough to have passive income or are retirees collecting pensions and social security.  Ray financed his sailing writing for the sailing magazines and when he was younger street performing as a juggler.  Actually living this way without a steady income of some type is close to impossible.  There are fees at every marina and customs fees to be paid, and these boats take a lot of maintenance to keep going.

Once collapse progresses far enough, finding places to stop and provision up where you won't be robbed or killed for your boat will become increasingly difficult, and out at sea you're very vulnerable to small pirates with offshore speedboats like the drug runners use.  So as a long term solution it's not very realistic.

For right now though, you could sail pretty safely from Alaska to Hawaii to New Zealand for provisioning, and find nice quiet coves and lagoons in the society islands away from people and pretend you're  Robinson Crusoe for a while.

RE

I was actually thinking of he who will not be named.  He who's family trips to a collapsing Soviet Union turned him into an 'expert' on collapse.  In the same way, if I jerk off enough can I get the experience to be a sex therapist?  I was actually thinking of he who expects all whom he meets to contribute lavishly to his greatness, prostrate themselves as unworthy supplicants on the ground, and kiss his feet.

The guy who thankfully has a hockey player with the  same so he is not thrust in your face the way he used to be every time you did a search for collapse.

QuoteI am NOT trying to convince large numbers of people to abandon their lives ashore and adopt the full-time cruising lifestyle. Instead, my goal is to inspire those who are already living aboard their sailboats. My hope is that I can encourage them to band together with other like-minded sailors who believe that society-wrecking catastrophes might lie just below tomorrow's horizon. <-- Ray

Ray is an 'exceptional' man who from an economic point of view has only had to worry about himself.  Ray has been able to earn when he need pay for boat supplies or he has had other means.  Ray has been able to quit and walk away when he wants to.

'Ordinary' men like myself, live lives where others depend on them.  Their obligations and understandings of life are different than from my point of view.

I do not find Ray to be a fountain of wisdom.  I consider him to be an average libertarian conservative.  But Ray does not like OTHER conservative types of the same ilk, claim to be more than he actually is. I have not read many of his essays, if I read more of them I might have objections to some of his 'philosophy', but I give Ray the benefit of the doubt. 

The Sea Gypsy.

I never had a problem with the sea gypsy. If I were him, surviving on the seas in a collapsing world would make sense.  A lifetime of experience and knowing where to go makes a bit of difference.

At sea one needs a destination.  Always.  In collapse there will be no destination.  Everywhere you go there will be hunger.  Hunger which you as a sea-gypsy will ignore after you lament about the horrors sufficiently.

Then you sail away.  Magic cans of spinach appear to satiate your hunger.  This does not impress me.

Quote from: 18hammers on Jan 02, 2024, 09:56 AM

Quote from: RE on Jan 01, 2024, 02:06 PMThe 1st broadcast of the Collapse Cafe, a solo effort since this website is loaded with a bunch of panty waists.

Enjoy.  Only 20 minutes.

RE

I have never really cared about discussing  collapse as such, as a topic. Really more interested in  hearing about how others are adjusting and making their lives more durable and the lessons learned. People must learn that their own personal collapse (age related, health related, monetary related ) in what ever form that takes is what they need to plan for and by default this will leave them in a better position for any other occurring event.

QuotePeople must learn that their own personal collapse (age related, health related, monetary related ) in what ever form that takes is what they need to plan for and by default this will leave them in a better position for any other occurring event.

Exactly Right!

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 02, 2024, 10:01 AMRay is an 'exceptional' man who from an economic point of view has only had to worry about himself.  Ray has been able to earn when he need pay for boat supplies or he has had other means.  Ray has been able to quit and walk away when he wants to.

All true, and single men do compose the majority of people who pursue the Yachty lifestyle.  However, there are quite a few couples who do it, both same sex and opposite.  I met several lezzie couples during my brief vacation yachting in the Greek islands one summer in the 80s.  I also met 1 family with 3 girls, age 6, 9 and 11, but they also were only doing it for the summer.  Periodically if you read Cruising World (the magazine for Yachties), they feature a family who does it as lifestyle, homeschooling the kids aboard while circling the globe.  Those deals usually take a couple of years while they do a circumnavigation.

Over the last 50 years or so, it's been possible to do this in reasonable safety, although a few Yachties have been kidnapped and held for ransom over the years.  Usually these folks did their cruising in dicey areas in SE Asia or around the coast of Africa.  The Mediterranean, Bahamas and Pacific Islands for the most part pretty safe.

Yachty families really into it let their kids go off on their own quite young to adventure this way.  Laura Dekker started her solo circumnavigation at age 14 and finished it at age 16.  That's remarkable independence and says a lot about the lifestyle for raising kids.

RE

Quote from: Tonyprep on Jan 01, 2024, 07:46 PMYes, the apparent lack of detrimental impact of post peak crude oil production is confusing. It may be partly due to all liquids (including NGL) production continuing to increase and partly due to the fact that economic activity is still below 2019, due to COVID lockdowns in 2020 and later. The lack of crude oil growth may start to be noticeable this year.

Could be, but liquids aren't crude. Butane and propane and ethane just aren't something you jam into your internal combustion engine in any real volumes. If we were building a bunch of propane and butane powered cars it might be something to think about, but so far humans have leaned more towards EVs.

Quote from: Tonyprep on Jan 01, 2024, 08:09 PMFar all of these reasons, modernity, with 8 billion people and a decimated wildlife population, couldn't and can't be made sustainable.

Yup. Turns out being a biped lizard with big claws and teeth works for millions of years as an apex predator, and silly little biped monkeys thinking sentience was a big deal turn out to be no smarter than a family of cockroaches trapped in a bucket with 5# of sugar...happily enjoying themselves until....

Quote from: TonyPrepBe thankful that the great acceleration has given those alive today the possible opportunity to witness the early stages of collapse.

Thankful! Yes! That is better than optimistic...be THANKFUL that we didn't die back in the 80's when we were supposed to, or during the peak oils of the late 20th or early 21st century, or during the Chinese economy collapse a decade ago, or ongoing climate continuing to change, or the Cold War, or the Mayan Calendar or Yellowstone exploding...we should be grateful. That we made it through like everyone else, and are far closer to dying in our sleep than becoming MZB fodder.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 02, 2024, 10:01 AMThe Sea Gypsy.

So...the blog doesn't exist anymore? I thought you were talking about Orlov most of the time during the post.

Quote from: TDoS on Jan 02, 2024, 05:41 PM

Quote from: Tonyprep on Jan 01, 2024, 07:46 PMYes, the apparent lack of detrimental impact of post peak crude oil production is confusing. It may be partly due to all liquids (including NGL) production continuing to increase and partly due to the fact that economic activity is still below 2019, due to COVID lockdowns in 2020 and later. The lack of crude oil growth may start to be noticeable this year.

Could be, but liquids aren't crude. Butane and propane and ethane just aren't something you jam into your internal combustion engine in any real volumes. If we were building a bunch of propane and butane powered cars it might be something to think about, but so far humans have leaned more towards EVs.

You can run a standard ICE engine on NG or Wood Gas, NF here does that.  You just need a tank to hold the gas and a carburetor to mix it with air before feeding it into the cylinder.  You could do the same with propane.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 02, 2024, 06:37 PMYou can run a standard ICE engine on NG or Wood Gas, NF here does that.  You just need a tank to hold the gas and a carburetor to mix it with air before feeding it into the cylinder.  You could do the same with propane.
RE

Of course. But it isn't done in any volume because ethane, propane and butane get used for a bunch of other useful things, in part because there is so much of the crude oil around to do most of the real work.

I mean really, get some water and electricity, catch the hydrogen as it forms, put it in a tank and get DONE with all the silly carbon molecules polluting up the world regardless of whether or not they are crude oil or "liquids". But we don't do that either to any degree.

There is the technically possible...and then all the stupid stuff we bipeds do instead because it's easy.

Quote from: TDoS on Jan 02, 2024, 06:03 PM

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 02, 2024, 10:01 AMThe Sea Gypsy.

So...the blog doesn't exist anymore? I thought you were talking about Orlov most of the time during the post.

You are right.  I was.  RE brought the Sea Gypsy into it.  His blog still exists.  The Sea Gypsy

I was curious about Orlov.  Did some searching.  He has hard core fans who send him money.  Some kind of cult thing going on,  and he is living somewhere outside Saint Petersburg, and rootin for Putin.

Quote from: TDoS on Jan 02, 2024, 07:38 PMI mean really, get some water and electricity, catch the hydrogen as it forms, put it in a tank and get DONE with all the silly carbon molecules polluting up the world regardless of whether or not they are crude oil or "liquids". But we don't do that either to any degree.

You need a source of carbon free electricity generation to do commercial hydrolysis.  It is being done now at some nuke plants and wind farms to produce hydrogen for fuel cells.  There are multiple problems with commercializing the process.  First off, conversion of electricty to chemical energy stored in molecular hydrogen is an energy intensive process, so there is significant loss.  Second it takes still more energy to liquify the hydrogen for transport.  3rd, there is no infrastructure  built to support fuel cells and distribute the liquid hydrogen.

As new alternative solutions to fossil fuels are concerned, the Flow Batteries we discussed last week are superior to hydrogen as energy storage tech, IMHO.

RE

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 02, 2024, 10:04 PMI was curious about Orlov.  Did some searching.  He has hard core fans who send him money.  Some kind of cult thing going on,  and he is living somewhere outside Saint Petersburg, and rootin for Putin.

I always joked about Dmitry going back to Mother Russia and shilling for Vlad.  So he finally actually did it for real?  I wonder if he sailed his boat there from FL?  Think he gave up his FSoA passport?

RE

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 02, 2024, 11:45 PMThere are multiple problems with commercializing the process.  First off, conversion of electricty to chemical energy stored in molecular hydrogen is an energy intensive process, so there is significant loss.

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics isn't a "problem", it is just one of those laws of the universe type things. And people don't give a rats behind at the energy loss turning a plentiful liquid fuel like crude oil first into gasoline (loss and loss) and then BURNING it (more loss and more loss), so while engineers and pedants might care about these kinds of losses, Joe Sixpack does not.

Joe Sixpack cares about cost. Doesn't give a crap about 2nd Law nonsense from the eggheads, he cares about whether he can afford to pour diesel into his truck to still have some cash left over for bar hopping Saturday night while ICEing some dweeb in their Prius along the way. The losses could become even more horrifying (BIGGER MONSTER TRUCK FOR JOE!) and if the fuel cost doesn't slow him down (slacken demand)....nobody else cares either! Enjoy the bigger monster truck Joe! Economics in motion.

Quote from: REAs new alternative solutions to fossil fuels are concerned, the Flow Batteries we discussed last week are superior to hydrogen as energy storage tech, IMHO.
RE

Excellent! And where might I buy enough to...say...power my home? I mean, if they are indeed superior and not just in a efficiency only contest, then part of that superiority must translate to lower costs than the alternative, and they must be whupping it up all over the alternatives.

Do you have a website where these can be purchased on a cost-competitive basis? Or are flow batterys in the land of "always better [fill in the reason why] but can't be found because efficiency isn't the only part of commercial/economic sales volumes"?

Theory is great. Commercial viability will tend to kick its backside every day of the week and twice on Sunday unless you are building solar probes that can afford ridiculous efficiencies to make their systems run in outer space for the next couple decades. No one needs that level of "better" to power their EV.

Why are you getting your knickers in such a twist?  You made the argument why hydrogen isn't being used.  It's not as profitable as sticking with crude, as long as it holds out.  Personally, I could care less which technology replaces ffs as long as it meets the goals of reducing carbon emissions, not creating a sewer of environmental damage, is sufficiently energy dense to handle the  applications, is affordable for the end consumer and there's enough supply that can be brought online to keep the various systems we have that are energy dependent running.

Can any of the possible alternatives out there meet all these goals right now?  No, all of them have some weakness, including the fact energy companies have already invested a lot of capital in one or another of them and have a vested interest in seeing the one they picked most widely accepted and distributed.  The same folks also have a lot of debt they have to service, so they need to see a return on these investments relatively quickly.

If hydrogen appeals to you, feel free to root for further development in that sector.  I have no problem with that.  I doubt however that it will play an important role, just as I doubt Fusion power will solve the energy production problem.  Both technologies have been talked about for decades, I've been reading about clean fusion and hydrogen fuel cells in Popular Mechanics since childhood.  Given the length of time it's been worked on, you would think they would be further along with it, but they're not.  Don't blame me for that, I'm just the messenger.

RE