Quote from: RE on Jan 03, 2024, 02:02 PMWhy are you getting your knickers in such a twist?  You made the argument why hydrogen isn't being used.

No knickers involved. And I used hydrogen as an example, sure.

Quote from: REIt's not as profitable as sticking with crude, as long as it holds out.  Personally, I could care less which technology replaces ffs as long as it meets the goals of reducing carbon emissions, not creating a sewer of environmental damage, is sufficiently energy dense to handle the  applications, is affordable for the end consumer and there's enough supply that can be brought online to keep the various systems we have that are energy dependent running.

"goals of reducing carbon emissions" is an interesting phrase. Do you believe that there are goals, i.e. plans to do something about carbon emissions that aren't hopium? It would seem reasonable to require that anyone setting such goals would require the action to be effective, and work at the appropriate scale. Within the constraints of the goals anyway.

Do you believe there is any effective action operating at scale based on all the plans that, say, the COP folks have been discussing over the years?

Quote from: RECan any of the possible alternatives out there meet all these goals right now?  No, all of them have some weakness, including the fact energy companies have already invested a lot of capital in one or another of them and have a vested interest in seeing the one they picked most widely accepted and distributed.  The same folks also have a lot of debt they have to service, so they need to see a return on these investments relatively quickly.

So...if this were an answer to my prior question, would this be a yes...a no...or a maybe?

Quote from: TDoS on Jan 03, 2024, 06:03 PMDo you believe that there are goals, i.e. plans to do something about carbon emissions that aren't hopium?

It's definitely a goal, it's what lecture halls full of scientists tell us is necessary if we are to prevent catastrophic climate change after COP conferences.  Greta Thunberg says it too, so it must be true. lol.   Whether this is an achievable goal is an open question.  It seems unlikely to succeed in the time frame they set out, but doing something is better than doing nothing.

QuoteDo you believe there is any effective action operating at scale based on all the plans that, say, the COP folks have been discussing over the years?

Generally they don't specify actions, just set goal dates by which time we're supposed to stop burning fossil fuels.  At the rate that is happening, those dates won't be met.  I don't think there is any way to achieve those dates and maintain the per capita energy expenditure we currently use.  However, the more alternative energy sources we develop, the better off we'll be.

QuoteSo...if this were an answer to my prior question, would this be a yes...a no...or a maybe?

What question? Can you buy alternatives on a cost competitive basis?  Obviously not, if you could there wouldn't be a problem.  All alternatives are still in development at one stage or another.  There's no real consensus on what is best to pursue, and different people and corporations jockey for investment capital.

Now, assuming we avoid having a catastrophic war and we don't have a global famine or plague in the next 50 years, it's likely that some alternatives will exist for some percentage of the population for some period of time.  What percentage and how wide the distribution and what the alternatives are all are open questions.  You can follow the age old wisdom: hope for the best and plan for the worst.

RE

QuoteIt's not as profitable as sticking with crude, as long as it holds out.

The rules of capitalism require crude be used as long as it holds out.

The rules of capitalism are, like, so harsh, you know? They make us, like, use all this crude stuff even when we don't really need to. But, like, whoa, that's some deep stuff you're talking about, dude. We should, like, do something to make things better, right? Like, stop listening to all these 'talkers' and start, like, taking action ourselves. We can, like, start by, you know, recycling more and stuff. Or maybe we can, like, support some companies that are, like, really doing their part to, like, save the planet and stuff. It's, like, super important that we, like, take action and make a difference, dude. We can't, like, just sit around and talk about it, you know? We need to, like, actually do something to make things better.

If oil depletion is a problem, then why the wars? We are polluting the air way more by having war, than not. Have we considered that this explosion in the middle east has nothing to do with oil? It's all about terrorism! (sarcasm)

The geopolitics involved with this conflagration is staggering. The common folk will have no idea why we are killing each other. Those with the oil do. These assets are all going into a banking system that has become a wonderland of digital connections. I think that western imperialism is going on trial soon. The global south has had it, and is on the rise.

Quote from: Knarf on Jan 06, 2024, 04:34 AMI think that western imperialism is going on trial soon. The global south has had it, and is on the rise.

Where would the trial be held?  Who would be put on trial?  How would the sentences be carried out?

RE

The trial will be held in the minds of people around the world. The masses that have been going along with western propaganda will change their minds and see the West as the Imperialist cabal that it IS. The sentence is rejection, on all levels...especially trade.

Quote from: Knarf on Jan 07, 2024, 11:08 AMThe trial will be held in the minds of people around the world. The masses that have been going along with western propaganda will change their minds and see the West as the Imperialist cabal that it IS. The sentence is rejection, on all levels...especially trade.

I do not agree.  People don't get pissed off.  Most of the global south still just wants their piece of the action and if they were suddenly in charge all that would happen is oligarchs would have different names.

Without some sort of 'movement' that would define a new path, nothing can change.  If it could I would be into direct action and nothing else, knowing that the end result will work itself out.

But revolutions are stolen .  Direct action without a movement to define a new path is mere chaos.
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And here I am trying to be part of that movement, and pissing in the wind.

Quote from: Fantasy Girl on Jan 05, 2024, 12:39 PMDO NOT CONFUSE THE ISSUE It is resource depletion. Talkers do nothing but talk, appear in podcasts, attend conferences, and write books.  Often 'talkers' are members of some 'group' or institute.

So, AI Fantasy Girl (got any pix?  ) what do you know about resource depletion? You apeared a bit light in mentioning much beyond the claim itself. Are you worried about coal resources? Uranium? Copper? Clean water? What are HAL9000's thoughts on the topic?

Quote from: Knarf on Jan 07, 2024, 11:08 AMThe trial will be held in the minds of people around the world. The masses that have been going along with western propaganda will change their minds and see the West as the Imperialist cabal that it IS. The sentence is rejection, on all levels...especially trade.

Well, at least so far the people of the global south aren't rejecting western propaganda, they're migrating here just as fast as they can.  Even if it were true there was some kind of mass trial of public opinion ongoing in the minds of the oppressed peoples of the world, that wouldn't matter to the oppressors, it never has.  They don't have the power to hold accountable anyone running the show.  Everyone is dependent on the systems that produce and deliver the food and the banks that control global trade.  You can't opt out of the system short of hiding in a cave in Afghanistan.  Even if the BRICS succeed in creating an alternative currency to the dollar, it's still the same system with a different brand name.  So this sort of trial won't fix anything that's broken.  You might as well say God will hold them accountable in the afterlife and they'll all burn in hell.  This may be true, but life here on earth will still suck.

RE

You gave the 20,000 foot view.  That is why this choice of music.

About the timeline.  If you have been waiting for the volcano to erupt in Iceland you soon find the earth runs on its own schedule.  Even Icelanders can't adjust to the long game of the earth.  So it is with collapse.  The Earth runs on its own timeline.

Peak oil happened exactly as predicted.  The peak had to do with conventional oil and tight oil was not accounted for.  The peak is bumpy because of substitutions, which also will soon peak and the borrowed time will be gone.  After that it is oil shale burning which is so dirty that there will be palm trees and crocodiles in the Swamps of St. Peterberg Russia before the last rock is cooked for the oil inside.

I don't agree the Limits to Growth predictions are off schedule.  Consider we are boiling frogs and don't trust your 'feelings'.  Look at the graph.



News of how bad things are in other places is not making our news.  What about the price of wheat?


Since the video the price of wheat has gone down.  The price of rice is way up.  Overall there is significant global food price inflation.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 08, 2024, 11:57 PMThe peak had to do with conventional oil and tight oil was not accounted for.

That is exactly what I said.

RE

I'm joined by  my co-host Monsta from the UK for this edition of the Collapse Cafe.  Unfortunately due to a snowstorm here in Alaska we had a bad connection and had to cut it short, but hopefully can pick it up next week with better technical conditions.


RE

Good Monsta has been able to stay warm and is doing OK.  The message I get from this chat is people are struggling to get by over there.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 05, 2024, 12:23 AM
Good Monsta has been able to stay warm and is doing OK.  The message I get from this chat is people are struggling to get by over there.

I am not sure I would use that term. I would say it closer to falling behind i.e. every year we are poorer in real terms. Costs of living goes up but incomes do not increase enough to compensate. Moreover, with the issues of pensions the younger generation will have to work longer and harder.

To put this into perspective the department of wealth in pensions in the UK states my retirement will occur on 21 January 2055. You really think our pension systems will hold up by then when peak oil has already occurred 20 years in the past? There are quite a few people in my generation who grasp the concept that unlimited economic growth is absurd but since there are no actionable measures in place we are tied to the system. So, to many the answer is to simply party like it is 1999 and deal with the fallout when it comes. We have been left to fend for ourselves and no one cares about our plight. The old farts like Biden cannot relate on any level to what is going on, on the ground. Hence why mainstream parties are taking a battering and the more extreme ones are getting a look in.