The issue I always found a problem was that it seemed to me that wealth had little to do with how hard you worked,  The richest people seemed to do the least work.

I couldn't understand why a baseball player should make $millons$?  Just because he can throw a ball really fast or hit it with a bat this is worth $10M/year? A basketball player can dunk a ball and get rich because he's 7' tall?  That doesn't even take talent, just growth hormone.  A girl gets $10K/hr for a photo shoot?  She was born with good looks. Lucky for her.

True in the brain department also.  Do good in school, you can get into med school.  Graduate, you get $100K to start (1980s).  Lucky you, you were born smart.  What about all the rest of the kids in my 4th grade class?  Most of them were dumb as rocks.  They should be poor because they aren't as smart as me?  I couldn't even justify making a lot of money for MYSELF!  lol.  That was 1/2 the reason I quit banking.  The other half was I hated the suit and the people I worked with.

I remember finding out why Bob Alpblanap was a rich contributor to Richard Nixon's campaign.  He invented the little valve that goes on the top of spray can bottles.  The guy has a brainstorm one night and never has to work again a day in his life?  A rock star gets rich because he plays a mean guitar.  HTF is that hard work?  I guess it's hard work to keep your nose stuffed with coke and fuck groupies between concert dates.

People born rich stayed rich just by loaning money to poor people, then when they couldn't pay back the loan stripping them of all their assets.  How is that hard work?  They were lucky to be born rich.

All the people I ever knew who really worked hard were poor.  Truck drivers, construction workers, waitresses etc.  Getting rich was mainly about being lucky enough to have some kind of talent or ability in some area that you could get somebody to pay you a lot of money to do it.  Athletic people could get rich playing sports, hot looking people could get rich as actors, smart people could get rich as bankers, kids could get rich having rich parents.  It had little to do with work and a lot to do with luck.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 08, 2024, 03:23 PMThe issue I always found a problem was that it seemed to me that wealth had little to do with how hard you worked,  The richest people seemed to do the least work.

I remember finding out why Bob Alpblanap was a rich contributor to Richard Nixon's campaign.  He invented the little valve that goes on the top of spray can bottles.  The guy has a brainstorm one night and never has to work again a day in his life?  A rock star gets rich because he plays a mean guitar.  HTF is that hard work?  I guess it's hard work to keep your nose stuffed with coke and fuck groupies between concert dates.

People born rich stayed rich just by loaning money to poor people, then when they couldn't pay back the loan stripping them of all their assets.  How is that hard work?  They were lucky to be born rich.

RE

I actually don't want 'money for nothin' and 'chicks for free' is a pipe dream in any reality.  But a great tune it is!  Love the lyrics and worth the full eight minutes.

Contentment comes not so much from great wealth as from few wants.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 08, 2024, 11:20 PMContentment comes not so much from great wealth as from few wants.

...and money can't buy happiness. 

I wasn't concerned with who was more content, only with who made more money and whether hard work was an important factor.  I concluded that it wasn't.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 09, 2024, 12:55 AM

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 08, 2024, 11:20 PMContentment comes not so much from great wealth as from few wants.

...and money can't buy happiness. 

I wasn't concerned with who was more content, only with who made more money and whether hard work was an important factor.  I concluded that it wasn't.

RE

And you are 100% wrong.  Factory owners can and do watch hard work every day.  And it does not bother them one bit.  Hard work is fun to watch, so hard work IS an important factor.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 10:30 AMAnd you are 100% wrong.

No, I am 100% right.  Do any of those hard working factory workers get rich?  No.   Does the factory owner who watches the hard work get rich?  Yes.  Therefore, doing hard work does not get you rich, watching hard work done by others gets you rich.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 09, 2024, 10:51 AM

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 10:30 AMAnd you are 100% wrong.

No, I am 100% right.  Do any of those hard working factory workers get rich?  No.  Does the factory owner who watches the hard work get rich?  Yes.  Therefore, doing hard work does not get you rich, watching hard work done by others gets you rich.

RE

Marx distinguishes between two stages: socialism where scarcity is still present and where equal rules will be applied to unequal people (those who work hard, are smarter or luckier will earn more), and the highest stage of development, under communism, when, as the famous formula says, "everybody will contribute according to their abilities and receive according to their needs".

Communism cannot be realized, but it remains the goal.  I am a socialist.

And before anybody get their undies in a bunch about '(those who work hard, are smarter or luckier will earn more)' as RE points out.  The rules we have are ANYTHING BUT EQUAL!  and the extreme between those  (those who work hard, are smarter or luckier will earn more) can get down to a reasonable ratio like three to 1 in a more just system.

Imagine a world where the spread of income was three to one instead of a million to one AS IT IS NOW.  It would be a world next to paradise.   And all dogs would eat.  Doctors get the good horses.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 01:39 PMthe extreme between those  (those who work hard, are smarter or luckier will earn more) can get down to a reasonable ratio like three to 1 in a more just system.

As long as the society uses money, you'll end up with the big inequities.  That's why I favor societies that didn't use money, aka H-Gs.  All the teepees are about the same, all the clothes are utilitarian except some ceremonial clothes, everybody gets a bow & arrow and knife and then if you are artistic maybe you make carvings or industrious you make tools or fast you run after antelope.  You get an old horse when you're big enough to ride and a better one when you can catch it and train it.  That's enough for me.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jan 09, 2024, 03:34 PM

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 01:39 PMthe extreme between those  (those who work hard, are smarter or luckier will earn more) can get down to a reasonable ratio like three to 1 in a more just system.

As long as the society uses money, you'll end up with the big inequities.  That's why I favor societies that didn't use money, aka H-Gs.  All the teepees are about the same, all the clothes are utilitarian except some ceremonial clothes, everybody gets a bow & arrow and knife and then if you are artistic maybe you make carvings or industrious you make tools or fast you run after antelope.  You get an old horse when you're big enough to ride and a better one when you can catch it and train it.  That's enough for me.

RE

Money can also keep people from cheating.  If you don't have enough you can't take more shit from the commons than what is fair.  In a planned economy you need money for bookkeeping.  Not everybody has a work ethic and money motivates.

Green Capitalism Is A Con

That is the new guest post and all you have to do to read it is click on the globe up top.

AND members here can comment under the article like they can comment in Dogchat.

The Eco is redundant.

The granola eating vegans narrating the video are offensive for a few reasons.

The usual mistake of the smart thinking everyone else is smart is made.  They pontificate a utopian vision which is sure to piss many off.  But they also express genuine Marxist thought.  So.

They toke a bit of woke.

But I will give it 7.5 on a scale of ten.

It has become clear that big corporations and banks are not trustworthy in their management of America's oil, natural gas, coal, timber, and other natural resources. As communities across the country fall into greater poverty, Wall Street monopolists enrich themselves from the natural wealth of American soil. Nationalization of these resources will end the budget deficit. The profits from America's wealth must go to the country overall, not into the pockets of a few bankers. Popular power will be far more capable of managing these resources in a sustainable and eco-friendly way to ensure a better future in the face of the looming climate crisis.