What happens if Israel is charged with Genocide by the ICJ? The possibilities are...

•Israel suspended from the UN
•Palestine recognised as a UN nation
•Sanctions against Israel
•Individuals prosecuted for war crime

The US might have some actions taken against it being complicit in Genocide also.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1744697646554472879

I have no expectation that it is going to solve the march to extinction. It might slow it down a bit. Maybe the world will see the need to cooperate instead of compete. The oceans are really heating up, so the weather is going to be drastic from now on. Displacement of mass groups of people will happen. We will have to learn to adapt. It is more sane to adapt without using energy for war. Just look at the amount of money the US budget for military activity. The rush for the last of the oil should be cooperative with all nations to distribute it for minimal use. Life styles have to change eventually.
A charge of Genocide will definitely have a large effect on energy use.

QuoteWhat happens if Israel is charged with Genocide by the ICJ

As long as the Palestinians die, I don't think a Zionist will care what you call them.  Charging Israel with genocide will only remind Zionists that jews are oppressed, and have been persecuted for 2000 years.  They will double down on their slaughter because you just confirmed their narrative of being the chosen ones.  And they are the chosen ones.  How long will it be before there is a Palestinian Holocaust Museum in Washington DC.  I'll put my money on 650 million years.

We have learned here right here in the Diner that if you think you are going to convince someone peak oil was real, and that the world will go to shit if we maintain business as usual, bombarding people with facts won't work.  Facts have the exact opposite effect, you wind up scaring people and they decide YOU are crazy, move on, and forget about you.

It would truly suck to be a Palestinian.  Israel is a modern country, and the hegemony of wealth demands Palestinian must die.

The ONLY thing that can stop the slaughter is to embargo Israel and let nothing in and out of the country until the death stops.  That is not going to happen.  For that to happen America would have to have a collective morality that it no longer has.  If it ever did.

And the truth is, it never did.

The self-examination necessary to oppose what Israel is doing is requires too much mental anguish.  Out of sight and out of mind will prevail. 

Knarf, you make the mistake of thinking everyone is a good as you are.  It is an easy thing to do.  Some of us for brief periods of time will lift ourselves above animal instinct and use reason, logic and, humanity to arrive at conclusions.  Even if the conclusions logic gives are a bit uncomfortable from a personal point of view.  You have the ability to think this way, and you expect everyone else to have the same quality of your thought.

'Save as many as you can'  means everyone who can be saved should be saved.  Even people that are not like us.  As K-Dog i say a similar thing when I say 'All dogs eat'.

But the rules of tribalism are not consistent with all dogs eat or save as many as you can.  The rules of tribalism require 'others' must die.  Tribalism is the gut response, and a brain must master the gut.  Not all people can master their gut.  Many people can only follow others.  They do not care about the quality of their leaders, only that they have a leader to tell them what to do.  They are thought pirates because they have none of their own.

I wish it were not so.  But how many people take the mental leap to say we are all of the same tribe?  Not so many.  Had I never met someone with a spark of enlightenment in their eye would I?  We are of the same tribe is an original thought.

Hundreds of pro-Palestinian protesters were arrested after blocking off traffic to three major New York City bridges and a tunnel.

The demonstration sealed off entrances to the Holland Tunnel and the Brooklyn, Manhattan and Williamsburg Bridges, with protesters wielding banners that read "ceasefire now" and "end the occupation."

More than 300 people were arrested, according to a spokesperson for the New York Police Department, who said the locations were blocked for about an hour and a half on Monday.

Several groups took part in the demonstration, including the Palestinian Youth Movement, Jewish Voice for Peace, and the Democratic Socialists of America.


What was the reaction of Mayor Eric Adams to the protests in New York City?

Mayor Eric Adams spoke out against blocking bridges and tunnels during protests and emphasized the need for peaceful resolutions without causing disruptions to innocent people's lives.  <-- Replace innocent with self absorbed, narcissistic and ignorant lives.


300 concerned people in a city of millions.  Getting their ass kicked because they don't want to see innocents die and had the courage to disrupt a few of the cities adult children.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 09:33 AMBut how many people take the mental leap to say we are all of the same tribe?  Not so many.  Had I never met someone with a spark of enlightenment in their eye would I?  We are of the same tribe is an original thought.

tribe
/trīb/

noun: tribe; plural noun: tribes

    1. a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.

We are all of the same species, not the same tribe.

Far as which tribe God chooses goes, you don't find that out until the war is over.  When it's finished, God chose the winner.  However, a war isn't over until one side surrenders, a peace treaty is signed or everybody on one side is dead.  Since neither the Israelis or the Palestinians will surrender and so far seem unwilling to sit down and discuss terms for a treaty, that leaves only Door #3 to determine God's Will.

Now, the existence of the UN does provide another alternative which they have done on numerous occassions in Africa during Tribal Warfare, which is to send in "Peacekeepers"  However, just about nobody wants to send their own soldiers in between these two tribes, since they'll probably get shot by both sides.  So instead arms merchants send weapons and ammo to both sides so they can keep fighting, leading eventually to outcome #3.

Now, if Israel was in danger of losing at some point, they have The Bomb and would surely use it, but it probably wouldn't kill everybody and the area around Ground Zero wouldn't be very good for settlement for a while. So this doesn't solve the problem either.

In WWI, the French and Germans were at a stalemate for years, periodically shooting at each other across no-man's land.  Only once the FSoA dropped in to tip the balance of power were the French able to make headway.  This conflict looks likely to continue until one side or the other gets reinforcements.  That would likely kick off WWIII.

RE

QuoteOnly once the FSoA dropped in to tip the balance of power were the French able to make headway.

I am not so stupid as to think Americans will advocate for peace.  Israeli propaganda money and influence have all sheep here thinking the Palestinians are like the Lakota Sioux Nation.

They rape white women don't they?

The only hope is for the rest of the world to pressure Israel to cool its jets.  Because this is no stalemate.  This is slaughter.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 09, 2024, 12:13 PMThe only hope is for the rest of the world to pressure Israel to cool its jets.  Because this is no stalemate.  This is slaughter.

So, who is going to apply this pressure and how?  Have the Russians or Chinese threatened the Israelis?  Either of them could supply the Palestinians with cruise missiles capable of leveling Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv.  That would even out the slaughter and the Israeli Goobermint would have less support for continuing their own bombing campaign.  How about a naval blockade?  Turkey, Egypt and Saudi could provide enough boats to jam up the Israeli harbors.  What pipelines are supplying the Israelis with Oil & NG?  If the country supports the Palestinians they could shut them down.  If not, terrorists could blow up the pumping stations.There are a half a dozen countries who could help the Palestinians, but none are doing it.  Why?

Because everybody's afraid if they do it will touch off WWIII.  Neither the Ruskies or Chinese will do it, because the Amerikans would then step in to help the Israelis.  The Turks and Egyptians don't care enough about the Palestinians to step in.  The Israelis know this, which is why they did it in the 1st place.

Who really wanted this?  The Oil companies, of course.  They need a bigger, more secure state from which to control the Middle East.  Israel has been the beachhead for Big Oil in MENA since it was carved out of the old Ottoman Empire after WWI.  It's why they gave it to the Jews as a Homeland after WWII when nobody else would take them.  The neighborhood has been at conflict the whole time.  Now is what it has all been leading up to.

RE

So, who is going to apply this pressure and how?

I said it was the only hope.  I did not say anybody was going to do it.  That is a different issue.  Perhaps there is an unknown unknown that would cause another county to try and make western powers eat humble pie?  An unrelated proxy power play.  If there one is we don't know what it is.  So life in Gaza will be mean, brutish and short is the conclusion.

It was as American as Apple Pie.  With one of the most manipulative musical scores of all time.  I had to suffer through it and I am sure you did too.  And the six day war.  I figured with such a sweeping victory a lot of Arabs must have died, it dominated the TV for six days.  Shock and Awe 1960's style.  Special programming interrupting my Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons.  I could not understand how nobody cared about dead Arabs.  The Arabs had done nothing to America as far as I knew. Not like the Nazis.  I was told they were farmers.  What's wrong with that?  I did not know about Barbary Pirates until sixth grade.  And really, that was kind of a long time ago.

The full movie started playing after the trailer.  Of course it did.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 10, 2024, 03:09 AMI don't think this one can really be blamed on the oil companies.

I think the better film to grasp MENA history than Exodus is Lawrence of Arabia.  Of course it was about the Oil, why do you think the Brits and French wanted to destroy the Ottoman Empire?  After that, they just had a bunch of different tribes, no real nations to deal with.  A few royal families were made rich by giving them control over various parts of the Empire.  Everybody wanted control over as much land as they could negotiate, butt they didn't want many of the people inhabiting it.  The Brits had control over Palestine as a protectorate, and that neighborhood was filled with the people everyone surrounding them didn't want.  When the state of Israel was created for Jews displaced in Europe during WWII, that divided the Palestinian region, which had no government at all when the Brits left. The King of Jordan didn't want those people, so it's been run over the years by a variety of different factions.  They don't like the Israelis and vica versa.  The Israelis want the land they live on though, so they've been fighting for it ever since.  They took a big chunk of it during the 6 day war.

Why do you think the State of Israel was put there?  That's where all the major international Banks operate from.  That's who really is in charge there, the banks and the oil companies.  The historical animosity has been a useful tool in keeping the neighborhood in a perpetual state of war.  It's good for bizness.

RE

Today the ICJ will be hearing arguments about "Jurisdiction" which will last a few daze. THEN the actual trial could take years!!!! Jeeez. Climate will kill us all before they decide this. In the mean time. BAU...escalate this mess into a whole middle east conflict. Distractions and profit while the .0001% move the chess pieces.

Quotearguments about "Jurisdiction" which will last a few daze. THEN the actual trial could take years!!!!

Suffering and pain do not wait, and are here now.  The world is forever changing, in constant movement.  We don't have time to wait for it to stop moving and it never will.

Accountability begins now.

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 11, 2024, 03:36 PMAccountability begins now.

How does accountability progress though?

Take smoking for instance.  How were the tobacco companies held accountable for all the cancer victims?  Pay some fines, back to BAU.  How was anybody held accountable for Cambodian bombing?  How was the Holy Roman Catholic Church held accountable for the Inquisition? How were the Cossacks held accountable for the Pogroms?  Who was held accountable for the genocide of the original inhabitants of Turtle Island?

There is never accountability for death at the grand scale.  You can lay blame, for instance blame the Nazis for WWII, but you can't hold the Germans accountable for electing Hitler.  Who are you going to hold accountable for the refugee crisis?  Who would you punish and how?

Nobody will ever be held accountable for Palestinian genocide.  It may touch off a more widespread hot war in the region, dragging in the Iranians and the Saudis in which case there will be a lot of retaliatory bombing of Israel, but that doesn't make them accountable, it just evens out the death count if it happens.

The total population of Gaza is 590,000.  Population of Tel Aviv 435,000.  Call it 1M people all together. That is 1/8000th of the world population, 0.0125%.  If you wiped them all out, it's a tiny fraction of the number of dead people coming down the pipe.  Nobody will be held accountable for the 7 Billion that follow them either.



RE

You are right.  I was referring to Karf's point about the timeline of ICJ justice. And what am I trying to say.  It turns out,

QuoteJustice delayed is justice denied

is a legal maxim.  Somebody thunk it out before I did.

Implication being, and consistent with what you wrote.  We live in an unjust world.  Justice is a function of time and place.  If there is no desire for justice, none will be found.  Justice is man made.

Justice is the foundation of all other virtues. It is the principle that governs our relationships with others and ensures that we treat them with respect and compassion. Justice requires that we treat others as we would like to be treated, with fairness and equality.

Justice is the natural order, but many people it seems, prefer an unnatural order.

Very well said, both of you. It's a big mess. As always.

BAU will proceed, but there will be a lot of pressure to start relinquishing the stranglehold capitalism has had on us. The competition for resources by the big money holders are conducting this charade we are dancing to. There are many styles of dance. Maybe there will be a new dance that goes viral, and resembles the dance of Kali. We all learn the dance and put our video's in the cloud. Can you imagine the amount of time and money we are spending on cyber protection?

Israel's defense of Genocide and a conditional ceasefire was just on. I almost fell asleep through one guys speech. Either way this hearing turns out, the goose is loose in the barnyard.