QuoteThere is no innate human nature. If there were, the earliest modern humans woulda created and destroyed industrial civ tens of thousands of years ago. The conditions and processes of social organization which led to surplus accumulating slave society, the one we inhabit, are also the ones that created the potential for a universal humanity. But just because something can happen doesn't mean it will. Just because eggs can lead to chickens doesn't mean they always do. Sometimes an egg is just an egg.

The problems are.  For one not, everyone is the same and that by itself nullifies the innate nature claim.  In the same circumstances one person thrives and another becomes a misfit.  The only thing innate here are the differences.

The biggest problem I have with this conservative defeatist attitude is.  Ok if there actually is innate human nature, what is it?

Society changes people.  What is 'innate' in one society is different than what is 'innate' in another.  Fish can't see the water they swim in, and humans can't know what innate  nature is.  Society changes who we think we are in ways that we can't explain.  What people call innate in their social sea is indistinguishable from what social conditioning has created in them.  Swimming in the 'sea' there is no way to tell the difference.

Years ago John Michael Greer introduced the idea of 'thought-stopper'.  Greer described the idea as statements or thoughts that stop people from talking about things. 

I realized the concept has greater significance.  Some more than others, brains are thinking and consuming resources.  Sugar specifically.  An unsolved problem consumes a lot of resources, and a half-assed solution to a problem can pass for a satisfactory solution to stop thinking which is not reaching conclusion.  Thinking which is consuming energy for no good reason.

Saying something is 'human nature' is one of the most effective thought-stoppers out there.  Right up, there with the world is always changing.  The amount of drugs I would have to consume to make 'the world is always changing' or 'It's just human nature' sound profound would make me very sick.

Quote from: TDoS on Mar 31, 2024, 10:28 AMWe aren't a sample size of much of anything representative of the world nowadays maybe?

Given the aging demographics globally, actually we are fairly representative of the world at large.  The percentage of seniors populating all the industrialized countries is increasing in tandem with the falling birthrate.  We also have Monsta and NF from Gen x & Gen Y I think and Cam who is a millenial though haven't heard from him in a while.  Also, not only our own perspectives are discussed here, recently I posted an article about the overtones of doom running through the Millenial sub-Reddit.  Collapse is definitely not isolated to old folks with their individual collapse issues.  Most of the 1000s of Homo Saps populating the refugee camps at the Mexican border are Gen z & Millenial and their kids, who are Generation Alpha.  Obviously since none are members yet we only hear their perspectives in the articles and videos we put up for discussion, but I think most of us are capable of empathizing, though not all of us are capable of that I am aware also.

So, while it's true that there are aspects of collapse that are subjective and age does play a part in how you see things,  I don't see that as a huge issue here for most of us.  I may not think quite as fast as I used to, but the direction of my thinking today is not that much different than when I was younger.  The problems I have have changed, but so have the problems of the world around us.  You adapt.

RE

Quote from: jupiviv on Mar 31, 2024, 02:35 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Mar 31, 2024, 07:22 AMI wrote my post. Asking a simple quesiton and then putting a frame of reference of around it. I didn't come up with the idea of somehow being poor comes with a "sting" to it, only asked, and to some extent answered, what someone might think that is.

I get it, you're a troll whose idea of a conversation appears to be preschool tier 'no i said that you cant say that' word salad diaper tantrum. RE noted this and also wondered how long I could tolerate interacting with you. I can answer him right now.

RE called me a troll decades ago for informing his old website and others at peakoil.com that peak oil in that timeframe was a crock. So sure, if "troll" in his world equates to "capable of precognitive smarts beyond the pale on this topic", okay.

All I did was lay out my version of "sting". And ask what yours might be. Do you not know, or are we supposed to guess?

Quote from: TDoS on Mar 31, 2024, 03:43 PMe a troll decades ago for informing his old website and others at peakoil.com that peak oil in that timeframe was a crock.

Nonsense.  I identified you as a troll because of your behavior, not your choice of subject matter.  You have a single topic you drop in on and post endless repetitive bullshit on while claiming to be a world class expert who won't identify himself while simultaneously dismissing as idiots any number of other people  in a list so long I can't remember all the names who have published material he doesn't agree with.  Hubbert is only one of this list.

Besides using appeal to authority as his primary gimmick and self justification in arguments, he's an insulting, self important, narcissistic and misanthropic braggart whose only excuse for living is that he's inbred Appalachian white trash who was repeatedly beaten with a tire iron by his father for raping his sister before dad took his turn after he got home from work at the coal mine.

His role here on the Diner is the Dog we keep around to kick because he loves any attention he can get and he's a really easy target.   He's totally predictable and can be relied on to drop in and demonstrate hisutter lack of understanding of concepts outside his own narrow specialty, which whether he's right or wrong makes absolutely zero difference to how collapse is progressing along.  He's a broken record with a track that started skipping back in 2006 and keeps playing the same 3 bars of music over and over again.

When I get bored enough of kicking him, I'll delete his posting or give him another ban to cool his heels for a while and come up with a better purpose for living than to troll a website that has close to zero people who read it and of those who do, each and every one of them thinks he's a complete asshole.  Unfortunately, he's like Cool Hand Luke, and no matter how many times you beat on him, he never gets the message.


RE