QuoteFar as T Rex long duration as Apex predator,

Will you last six months?  No you will not.  Pick any random old time, likely it will be a critter you never heard of who will have you for lunch.

In the absense of man nature grows megafauna.  But dinos with sharp teeth in the 40-200 lb range were far more common than the big as a tank monsters like T-Rex.  One of them would be more likely to get you.

A Sabine Hossenfelder video makes it into the Diner.

It had to happen someday.

The video below explains Joe Rogan's audience.  If you compared the general genetic quality of the American population of 1880 to the quality of American DNA today there will be differences.  Medical care to keep the weak breeding has been around for a hundred years.  That is a few generations.  Sugar which was once as hard to find in the natural environment as gold has been around all that time.  Sugar became cheap, and is growing people like weeds.  Dickweeds to be exact.

New Study Reveals Sharp Decline in American IQ Scores as the "Reverse Flynn Effect" Takes Center Stage

The Reverse Flynn effect is more environmentally caused, and not due to hard science reasons I describe above.  Reasons I am sure everyone will prefer to be in denial of.

Quote from: Tonyprep on Jun 03, 2024, 10:03 PMI sense a tendency to elevate humans beyond being a species. "Intelligence" was defined by humans so has no intrinsic meaning. All species act like species. Some appear cleverer than others, to our eyes (partly because we think we're rational and so can set arbitrary bars for what is intelligent), but all would enter overshoot if they had our abilities, or if they are presented with an abundance of resources that they could access (perhaps by some natural environmental disaster for other species). Even in declaring rationality, we use our definition of it (there are no other definitions). We are rational because we are. I don't believe any of it.

I agree with you.  We are legends in our own mind.

However, there is this thing called science and something called ancient wisdom.  (Not to be confused with ancient knowledge.)  Some people seem more gifted than others in some way which lets them appreciate this thing called science and that thing called ancient wisdom more than others do.  In a way I won't bother defining.

The pic I posted which shows I understand what you say, suggests something else.

The free will debate is silly.  We do not have free will.  Robert Sapolsky and I are on the same page about that. 

But: Chaos theory shows the solution space of decisions humans can choose to make is huge.  The predator prey model is only predictable when coefficients in the model are below thresholds.  Above which population behavior becomes chaotic.  The consequence of chaos theory on human thought gives us essentially free will within our deterministic solution space.  Free will within limits.

Combine human psudo-random deterministic behavior with consciousness (I assume you have it, I know I do.)  Let you hand draw itself.  Hands drawing themselves is the stoic thing to do.  Human and natural.  That is pretty close to being free to me.

How much your hand draws itself is up to you.  Some hands are better than others at this.  Your mileage will vary, and it matters where you start.


The solution space sets you free.  =>

Quote from: K-Dog on Jun 04, 2024, 10:31 AMHop into a time machine and go back to any healthy biome older than 10,000 years.  Humans were not around to extinct the megafauna back then.  The only thing that will go into the time machine with you is one set of clothes and one Buck knife.

Among the mega-fauna Homo Saps are credited with extinctifying are the Wooly Mammoth, the Sabre Tooth Tiger, the Cave Lion and Cave Bear and ancient Bison, 7.5' tall at the shoulder weighiing about 3500 lbs.  All accomplished before we had metal knives, they did it with stone and bone tipped spears, or more often by pack hunting and driving them into traps.  Big but not real smart or fast animals in general.

Would a modern homo sap be successful at this game?  Unlikely except for a small number of Cody Lunden types, and not alone, you get to travel back with a typical H-G hunting party of 6-12 healthy adult males.  We did have the necessary qualities to take over as Apex predator from these animals.  Your ideal time traveling hunting party would need training in making stone tools, making traps and practicing pack hunting strategy prior to getting in the time machine.  Like the Terminator, you get sent back naked with no weapons.  For the test subjects, I'd probably select from NFL players and trackers from African or Native American tribes.

Would we have been as successful against Dinosaurs, some of which were bigger?  Unless somebody builds a IRL Jurassic Park we'll never know for sure.  I suspect we would have by out-competing them for prey and by eliminating their environment.

RE

Quote from: Tonyprep on Jun 03, 2024, 10:03 PMI sense a tendency to elevate humans beyond being a species.

By who? The silly humans who think they have it all figured out and are busy wrecking the joint..and KNOW they are wrecking the joint?

Quote from: Tonyprep"Intelligence" was defined by humans so has no intrinsic meaning. All species act like species. Some appear cleverer than others, to our eyes (partly because we think we're rational and so can set arbitrary bars for what is intelligent), but all would enter overshoot if they had our abilities, or if they are presented with an abundance of resources that they could access (perhaps by some natural environmental disaster for other species). Even in declaring rationality, we use our definition of it (there are no other definitions). We are rational because we are. I don't believe any of it.

Good for you then. If folks had worked through to this point of view prior to all the End Times Rapture Scenarios that folks began building back on Earth Day 1970 we wouldn't have had to endure all the secular end times nonsense since then.  Us humans are terrific pud knockers when it comes to intellectual masturbatuon, we just can't help ourselves.

Quote from: RE on Jun 04, 2024, 01:46 AMThe thing is, Joe Rogan's audience IS stupid enough to eat this shit up.  Just as MAGA crowds are stupid enough to eat up the shit that Donald #VonShitzinPants defecates from his mouth every day.
RE

Nice analogy, the slowest reaction thing.

And your comment above applies exactly to the legions of doomers as well. Stupid enough to eat that shit up.

Cold War! Mayan Calendar! The Great Dieoff! Planet X! Peak oil 1990! 2008 recession! Area 51! Blue Ocean Event! The Sun is getting lighter every day!

Well...not that last one....but the timing of it isn't the neato cool doom tomorrow requirement of the stupid shit that gets shoveled into the feeding troughs at the doomer feedlot.

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 04, 2024, 02:21 PMAnd your comment above applies exactly to the legions of doomers as well. Stupid enough to eat that shit up.

There's a difference  With Terence Howard's physics or anyone buying the MAGA party line vs doomers: it's a quid pro quo.  They are all automatically idiots.  It's not automatic for Domers.

Just being a Doomer doesn't make you an idiot.  I'm not an idiot, and I'm a doomer.  If you can make jusifiable arguments for your doomer philosophy, you're not an idiot.  Even if your timeline isn't right on the nose.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jun 04, 2024, 03:36 PMThere's a difference  With Terence Howard's physics or anyone buying the MAGA party line vs doomers: it's a quid pro quo.  They are all automatically idiots.  It's not automatic for Domers.

Incorrect. Both groups have intelligient people leading the charge, slopping the hogs at the trough for votes, likes and clicks, doom, political, or web popularity fame.

Quote from: REJust being a Doomer doesn't make you an idiot.  I'm not an idiot, and I'm a doomer.

Because I don't buy your premise it doesn't matter. You are correct, you aren't an idiot, but neither is Ted Cruz, Eastman, Clarence Thomas or his wife, etc etc.

Quote from: REIf you can make jusifiable arguments for your doomer philosophy, you're not an idiot.  Even if your timeline isn't right on the nose.
RE

Slopping the hogs for MAGA or doomer fame isn't about timeline accuracy or philosphy. It is about "all hogs are equal, but some are more equal than others". Smart hogs run MAGA and Doomerville, no slop for them. They just need enough slop to keep the other hogs going for it so they don't notice that it is slop they are being fed. And besides, most hogs are happier following the herd without a seconds thought. Be it white nationalists or doomers.

Quoteintelligient

people or intelligent people.  Which is it.

Are they that the same as these?

Quote from: TDoS on Jun 04, 2024, 08:45 PM

Quote from: RE on Jun 04, 2024, 03:36 PMThere's a difference  With Terence Howard's physics or anyone buying the MAGA party line vs doomers: it's a quid pro quo.  They are all automatically idiots.  It's not automatic for Domers.

Incorrect. Both groups have intelligient people leading the charge, slopping the hogs at the trough for votes, likes and clicks, doom, political, or web popularity fame.

Anyone following Terence Howard who buys his scientific reasoning is an idiot.  Same with anyone who buys Trumpovetsky's politics

Quote

Quote from: REJust being a Doomer doesn't make you an idiot.  I'm not an idiot, and I'm a doomer.

Because I don't buy your premise it doesn't matter. You are correct, you aren't an idiot, but neither is Ted Cruz, Eastman, Clarence Thomas or his wife, etc etc.

Don't know who "Eastman" is, don't know anything about Clarence Thomas' wife, but Ted Cruz & Clarence Thomas are idiots.  Just idiots who made it through Law School.

Quote

Quote from: REIf you can make jusifiable arguments for your doomer philosophy, you're not an idiot.  Even if your timeline isn't right on the nose.
RE

Slopping the hogs for MAGA or doomer fame isn't about timeline accuracy or philosphy. It is about "all hogs are equal, but some are more equal than others". Smart hogs run MAGA and Doomerville, no slop for them. They just need enough slop to keep the other hogs going for it so they don't notice that it is slop they are being fed. And besides, most hogs are happier following the herd without a seconds thought. Be it white nationalists or doomers.

Since I don't slop hogs for Doomer fame nor have I ever claimed anything about the hierarchical organization of hogs or doomers, I don't see how this commentary is relevant.  I write about Doom because the topic interests me.  My writing isn't slop, it's generally pretty concise prose.  The readers who like my prose aren't hogs, generally they're pretty well read people with expertiese in some field  and contribute their own ideas to the total content here.  Your implication is that I write slop, the Diner serves slop and Diners are consumers of slop.  I can only interpret this as a full on insult of the Diner.  Cooler time.

RE

Quote from: RE on Jun 05, 2024, 01:32 AMSince I don't slop hogs for Doomer fame nor have I ever claimed anything about the hierarchical organization of hogs or doomers, I don't see how this commentary is relevant.  I write about Doom because the topic interests me.  My writing isn't slop, it's generally pretty concise prose.  The readers who like my prose aren't hogs, generally they're pretty well read people with expertiese in some field  and contribute their own ideas to the total content here.  Your implication is that I write slop, the Diner serves slop and Diners are consumers of slop.  I can only interpret this as a full on insult of the Diner.  Cooler time.

RE

Again interesting. You are so sensitive to the basic observations of what I wrote that not only are you stymied for a response but it must be removed that others dare not see the truth of it.

Fasinating RE. Just fascinating.