Is the world getting worse.

I am not going to try and describe this.  It has to be experienced.

I'll only say, beyond good.

The problem is, people don't get that billionaires are ordinary people with a lot of money.

Ordinary people vary.  Some be good and some are very fucked up.

The logical conclusion is they should not have the power AND BE revered the way they are.

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 16, 2024, 04:24 PMbillionaires are ordinary people with a lot of money.

They may start as Ordinary People, the problem is that having a lot of $Money$ also brings a lot of POWER.

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

RE

Quote from: RE on Dec 17, 2024, 01:11 AM

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 16, 2024, 04:24 PMbillionaires are ordinary people with a lot of money.

They may start as Ordinary People, the problem is that having a lot of $Money$ also brings a lot of POWER.

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

RE

Yes, the asymmetry of power that money produces generates misery.  I found a video on the subject.  The video talks about a book I read a few years ago.  I found the book when I was thinking about inequality, and I had suspected that it is more the root of evil than money itself.  Far more the root.  The book mentioned provided scientific evidence for my conclusions.  The asymmetries money generates pollutes normal human relations. 


The video presenter says his new understanding fundamentally changed the way he understands the world.  This is no exaggeration.  The same thing happened to me.

Reduce inequality and generate democracy.  The answer to our woes is simple.  Instead stupidity dooms us.
 

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 17, 2024, 02:20 AMThe video presenter says his new understanding fundamentally changed the way he understands the world.  This is no exaggeration.  The same thing happened to me.

Reduce inequality and generate democracy.  The answer to our woes is simple.  Instead stupidity dooms us.
 

Really? So you, as a good communist wanting to reduce inequality...what does that mean you'll do with the million dollar house and fancy German luxury cars? Both are excellent status symbols, blasting out to the world that when it comes to inequality, the owner of these properties and vehicles is sure a bunch better than all you numbskulls!

"A toyota???....pfffftttt....Kia? Don't make me laugh!" <haughtily throws head back and marches out of sight of poor sucker with toyota and 900 sq ft hovel>

And if you, a good communist by your own account, aren't willing to reduce your inequality compared to the common man, why in the HELL would anyone believe a word you just said? Let me guess, in the past your answer has been, "hey, I've EARNED mine....therefore I DESERVE my luxury cars and 7 figure home".....think fast....wouldn't Elon and every other fat cat say the same thing?

What is the phrase...seeing as RE is whipping out homilies...oh yeah....BELIEVE WHAT GOOD COMMUNISTS DO...NOT WHAT THEY SAY.

Quotewhat does that mean you'll do with the million dollar house and fancy German luxury cars?

I will keep the cars and the house as they are the result of fifty years of my own congealed labor.  My net worth is consistent with someone who earned every fucking dime they have.  Which I did.  I am comfortable because I made myself comfortable, as I continue to do by working after retirement when I really do not have to.

If America were communist my personal situation would not be any different because you can keep what you earn in communism.  If the entity you work for is privately owned or owned by the dictatorship of the proletariat, it does not matter.  In any system except slavery you keep what you earn.  In slavery you have free food and housing.  It is a tradeoff.

Communist is an accurate label for me but like all communists with both feet on the ground I understand full communism can't be achieved by contemporary society.  Socialism is the road to a destination which can't actually be reached.  But it is the road to take for it is the journey which matters. 

A few months ago I had the good fortune to ask myself how my life would be different if America at the snap of a finger suddenly were socialist.  My good fortune was that I asked myself this question on the way to work.  Five minutes from getting there.

The answer was that I still had to get to work on time.  That realization was my good fortune.

So how does socialism or communism really differ from the oligarchy we have?  The answer is democracy.  The dictatorship of the proletariat instead of the dictatorship of money that we have now.

Quotewilling to reduce your inequality

Really, you are over the top.  I live good because I worked and saved AS A WAGE SLAVE all my life.  Freedom from poverty describes me.  Benefiting from inequality does not because I earned what I have.  Even in communism people are paid.

Quotethink fast....wouldn't Elon and every other fat cat say the same thing?

They would say the same thing, and they would be lying.  They are rich because they stole congealed labor from other people.  I have not done that.  All the congealed labor I have is my own.  And that is the fundamental difference between workers and capitalists.  Theft of congealed labor defines capitalism.

I am in a rare situation where my life because of these things.

• No inherited wealth
• Paying my own way through school
• Working as a wage slave exclusively all my life
• Social Security being a thing

I have been able to live a life as if I lived in an advanced socialist country.  In a real socialist country my school would have been paid for 100%.  But I list it as necessary for me to claim that I live as a socialist does because my education was not given to me.  As education is to people in a capitalist family.  In capitalist families tuition is paid by someone else's congealed labor who is outside the family.  Someone who may not be able to educate themselves.  A situation of inequality and exploitation.

In America you really can't get more proletarian than I am.  Or less proletarian than Elon is.

In a real socialist country everyone would be able to live as I do.  You would not have to save your own money.  The system would do it for you.

And the system would make sure you had work.

And I see nothing wrong with owning cars that are made by the best car maker in the world.  I appreciate the quality.

Inequality is the root of evil.  <-- Back to the original point.

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 17, 2024, 01:07 PM

Quotewhat does that mean you'll do with the million dollar house and fancy German luxury cars?

I will keep the cars and the house as they are the result of fifty years of my own congealed labor.

But of course you will.

You will note that the logic I set up knew this in advance. And the dichotomy of that and your pressing desire for LESS INEQUALITY. When, in the eyes of the wealth of the people in the country and world, you good sir, ARE IT! Stealers of opportunity, hoarding of wealth and privilege (earned or otherwise), and as we now know, you also feel the same way AS THEM.

I EARNED IT...BY GOD I KEEP IT!!!

I agree with you. Not about whether or not your position is logically tenable, but I want to keep my stuff too. I understand why RE might want everyones stuff given to the needy (and arguably is getting just that), but you don't want things being equal for a split second.

How can you not go to Starbucks in a cage not broadcasting your status and hard earned privilege!

Quote from: K-DogMy net worth is consistent with someone who earned every fucking dime they have.  Which I did. 

Feels a little personal when someone wants to make you less "unequal" don't it? And that sqaures with the equalness of communism....how?

Quote from: TDos

Quotethink fast....wouldn't Elon and every other fat cat say the same thing?

They would say the same thing, and they would be lying.

And PRESTO. THEY are lying...but someone like you who has EARNED it...well....you just don't want those grubby poor people dipping into your successful professional life earnings.

Pot, kettle, black.

Quote from: K-DogThey are rich because they stole congealed labor from other people.  I have not done that. 

They are rich because they worked hard, in a different way then you, better than you in that they found an angle, and worked it, and leveraged it, and presto! Became exactly like you...except they did it better.

And now...no one had better touch my German taxi cabs because by God my boss at the big box store knows I am DA MAN when it comes to success above his hourly rate once upon a time!

Elon just does it with rockets and cars and stuff. And both of you think the same thing about things being "more equal". You just don't like how far he got with it, compared to the rest of us.

QuoteThey are rich because they worked hard, in a different way then you, better than you in that they found an angle, and worked it, and leveraged it, and presto! Became exactly like you...except they did it better.

And now...no one had better touch my German taxi cabs because by God my boss at the big box store knows I am DA MAN when it comes to success above his hourly rate once upon a time!

Insulting me gets you three days in the cooler.  Enjoy it.

Richard gives a good rant.  A strange title, but Richard did not make the video.  The audio was likely ripped from Democracy at Work on Richards Economic Update show.  https://www.youtube.com/@democracyatwrk

The ripped off audio was then paired with stock footage.  My take-away is that people are clueless.  I already know it.  My clulelessness is that I forget that people are clueless.  I underestimate the magnitude of the problem.

Here is a video from Economic Update:


Worsening Economic Inequality Yields Worsening Social Conditions

In 2009, the bestselling and award winning book, The Spirit Level, sounded the alarm on the corrosive effects of economic injustice. At a time when few academics were exploring this issue the book provided a comprehensive analysis linking the negative effects of inequality to a wide range of social ills – from higher rates of imprisonment and mental health issues to eroded trust within society. It revolutionised the way we looked at, measured and understood the impacts of inequality.

I have been beating the same drum for decades.  Inequality ruins normal human relations.  It is one of the pillars on which my socialism is built.

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 17, 2024, 02:33 PM

QuoteThey are rich because they worked hard, in a different way then you, better than you in that they found an angle, and worked it, and leveraged it, and presto! Became exactly like you...except they did it better.

And now...no one had better touch my German taxi cabs because by God my boss at the big box store knows I am DA MAN when it comes to success above his hourly rate once upon a time!

Insulting me gets you three days in the cooler.  Enjoy it.

If by "insulting" you mean pointing out a personally touchy subject of the "working man" ethos and your place in it, I don't understand why you shouldn't be proud of and wear on your sleeve the idea of being an honestly rich American communist. Seriously, how many of those can there be in the country?

But does it really take TWO luxury cars to make sure the other neighborhood millionaires notice that you are like them, and not grubby "less equal" working folks in the neighborhood?

I'm far more comfortable avoiding the type of ..... scenario.... I've just described. Comes from having grown up differently I imagine, and not having anything in me that demands I be recognized for my success. Except that one ego-stroking thing though (don't we all have at least one?  )

Why the personal sensitivity? This is a microscopic website with nobody here, it makes sense that if you are looking for attention in a flashy way IRL it doesn't matter at all here among the geriatic league, or defending yourself for liking said attention IRL either.

Drive, enjoy, (just don't get too far from a Benz dealer), wave at the neighbors while doing so to make sure they know who is DA-DOG when it comes to neighborhood status, and enjoy! No need to be prickly about it here in the least.

Quotejust don't get too far from a Benz dealer

I'm confined to the West Coast.  It cost me $500 to have it shipped from Missoula to have it fixed in Seattle when the transmission went into 'limp home' mode.  I was stuck in second gear.

Quote from: K-Dog on Dec 21, 2024, 10:13 PM

Quotejust don't get too far from a Benz dealer

I'm confined to the West Coast.

See, that idea would just make me crazy. If my cage with naught much more than a new oil change can't do Key West to Prudhoe Bay and back, or Chula Vista California to Goose Bay Labrador, it wouldn't be of value for anything to me. I have a car like that, I use it as a snowmobile in winter, and it does its job admirably. If its breaks, I have it towed to my mechanic and he does whatever, and back in action it goes.  But all the rest (except the EV, it doesn't have the range) are North American capable, north-south, east-west, with an oil change.

My current machine is a record holder for the lowest Miles Driven / $CapX Invested metric. Analog car, built in the last century, fixable in any repair shop in the country should some quarter century old part crap out, remanufactured engines and transmissions available from multiple companies, has a decent tow capacity and a Class III hitch to do it with, gets excellent mileage for a V8, holds as much crap as I can load in it, is smooth and quiet on the road, sits right at peak torque in overdrive at 85-90 mph, and the only downside is it doesn't do snow. Big deal, I have no intention of roaming the West or much of any other place in North America in winter.

Bought it to do a job. It does it. Wife hates it. Who cares. She says it makes us look poor in the neighborhood. Who cares. It smells like old dead people she says (prior owner must have been in her 80's when she was car jacked in it). I fumigated it. Body on frame construction, old school style, frame is fully boxed and came from a truck, it doesn't crumple on impact...it does the crumpling.

I'm only confined to non snowy roads.

Quote from: K-DogIt cost me $500 to have it shipped from Missoula to have it fixed in Seattle when the transmission went into 'limp home' mode.  I was stuck in second gear.

A modern car, doing exactly what it was taught to do.