You missed the point.  Of course a homeless person could start a fire.  Homeless people start fires all the time.  But why would someone publish an article about 'homeless people' starting the LA fires without ANY facts.

The arrested people did not start any of the wildfires.

Who started the fires?  The arrested people did not start the LA fires, so what is the point of talking about two economically challenged people who have no more connection to the LA wildfires than the suspects named in the muzic.  But that they both smell bad.

Somebody has an agenda.






Perhaps we need to burn some witches to properly explain things.









Homeless witches.

Quote"Justice will be swift. It will be firm, and the maximum punishment will be sought," Los Angeles District Attorney Nathan Hochman told NewNation's Ashleigh Banfield, adding that any suspected arsonist could be charged with homicide and sentenced to life in prison.

All the DA needs are suspects.  I suggest not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It would not be good.

Somebody get the DA a dog to take care of.  Please.

QuoteThere was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch. On nights like that, every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husband's necks. Anything can happen.

Santa Ana winds have a long history.

It shouldn't be any more of a surprise homeless people will be blamed for the fires than it might be true.  Somebody has to be blamed, and homeless people are an EZ target.  Finding which homeless person it was that started a particular fire is unlikely  though.  It will however give them an excuse to make outdoor fires a crime without a special permit and another thing the cops can charge them with to arrest them.

RE

Cost estimates are continuing to rise, AccuWeather now puts it at $250B-275B.  That is almost triple Katrina and in the neighborhood of the bailouts during the 2008 financial crisis.  There's no way the insurance companies can cover that kind of loss.  Money printing is going to be necessary.

Despite this, all the officials repeat the usual post-disaster platitudes about it being only property that can be rebuilt and replaced and there will be disaster relief loans etc etc etc.  Meanwhile, FEMA is already denying applications but don't worry it's just because everything isn't filled out correctly on the paperwork so call them up and resubmit and eventually maybe you'll get some help when they figure out where the money will come from because they don't have it now which is why they are rejecting any paperwork that is getting filed now.  Not sure how much money FEMA has in their bank account to dish out, but I guarantee it's not $250B.

Of course the fires are still ongoing and everyone is still in the emergency shelter phase so the complaining hasn't really started yeet.  Wait until a month or so after the fires are out and they still don't have housing or rebuilding money and/or can't find a contractor to even clean up the rubble.  It's going to be just like the aftermath of Katrina, except now it's not poor black folks in NOLA slums it's upper middle class entertainment industry people.  They will not be happy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/13/la-fires-wildfire-economic-losses

RE

As far as I can tell, this fire is NOT related to the LA wildfires, it's well north of LA in Monterrey and is an isolated injdustrial plant fire.  It is an interesting coinkidink though that it occurred while those fires are still burning  and occupying the time of every fire department in CA and the rest of the western states adjacent to it.

Also of interest is the fact it is spewing toxic smoke into the atmosphere and they aren't even trying to put it out, just waiting for it to finish burning.  This because Li battery fires aren't easy to extinguish by normal firefighting techniques like spraying tons of water on them.

Apparently this is the BIGGEST such plant in the world, which is saying a lot when you consider the Chinese probably make more Li batteries than we do here.

I do wonder about how the toxicity of this smoke compares to the toxicity of smoke from a fire in a Nuke Puke plant.  The Li isn't radioactive of course, but Li as a chemical is highly reactive and even just tiny quantities of it when inhaled could be extremely damaging to the lungs.  The articles so far aren't talking about this very much, which smells like a coverup to me.

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/17/g-s1-43268/fire-battery-storage-plant-california-moss-landing

https://www.ksbw.com/article/fire-moss-landing-battery-evacuations-california/63456595

https://www.kqed.org/news/12022725/massive-fire-monterey-county-battery-plant-spews-toxic-smoke-forces-evacuations

RE

https://poweringautos.com/is-the-smoke-from-a-lithium-ion-battery-harmful/

Info on the smoke.

I think it would be interesting to put a big fence around the burned part of Altadena and record nature reclaiming it.

Quote from: comrade simba on Jan 17, 2025, 10:28 PMI think it would be interesting to put a big fence around the burned part of Altadena and record nature reclaiming it.

That's where the poor/middle class blacks lived.  They won't be able to afford to rebuild, so the property will be snapped up by developers and it will be gentrified and replaced with luxury housing for the rich.  Happens after all the fires.

https://calmatters.org/commentary/2025/01/wealth-los-angeles-fire-recovery/

Wealth will dictate LA fire recovery unless California learns from mistakes of past disasters

RE

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 12, 2025, 09:00 PMYou missed the point.  Of course a homeless person could start a fire.  Homeless people start fires all the time.  But why would someone publish an article about 'homeless people' starting the LA fires without ANY facts.

The same reason people would take the published work of M. K. Hubbert and say he was absolutely right when those charts of his certainly don't look anything like the actual results?

When faced with irrefutable data (or even just inconvenient truths)...folks just do the "but...but...but" routine. With arguments of "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" or hopes and dreams or excuses...homeless people being easy targets.

Quote from: TDoS on Jan 18, 2025, 03:52 PM

Quote from: K-Dog on Jan 12, 2025, 09:00 PMYou missed the point.  Of course a homeless person could start a fire.  Homeless people start fires all the time.  But why would someone publish an article about 'homeless people' starting the LA fires without ANY facts.

The same reason people would take the published work of M. K. Hubbert and say he was absolutely right when those charts of his certainly don't look anything like the actual results?

When faced with irrefutable data (or even just inconvenient truths)...folks just do the "but...but...but" routine. With arguments of "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" or hopes and dreams or excuses...homeless people being easy targets.

I fail to see  how  Hubbert's data and charts and the reasons articles are published blaming homeless people for fires are the same.  Even as an analogy this doesn't work.

RE

The western world has a blind eye to the realities of all things Russian. Unexplored and untapped fields in Russian territory never entered the equation. Of course that's also sheepishly glossing over the whole fracking bonanza.

I spent a good decade (having fun with chickens goats and pigs and all things doom) sitting on the Watchtower of Doom until my asscheeks fell asleep and my kid needed better schools than podunk missouri had to offer. It's nice to know if our society degenerates into an agrarian backwater I'll always have skilz.

Y'know, people believe all kinds of shit based on their exposure to data - be it intentionally sought out or just appearing in whatever feeds they get. Never forget "content generators" have an agenda, and some of the most case hardened opinions driving that content.

Here's an idea...
Round up crazy homeless and put them in simple barracks housing in agricultural work camps. Three nutritious meals a day, clean water mandatory daily showers/shaves and palliative health care. Med levels can be determined at induction detox period. In and out 15 - 30 day treatment programs have failed miserably so like parole hearings, once a year you get to pitch your bid for transition back into the real world / productive economy.

Non crazy people who find themselves jobless, penniless and homeless can also get a break from a hopeless situation and voluntarily sign up for a six month stint of farm labor with job placement assistance at end of term. Good option for women with kids needing some safety and a fresh start.

Just spitballing. The homeless are getting more numerous and crazy - what we've been doing seems to be a complete fail 

Quote from: REI fail to see  how  Hubbert's data and charts and the reasons articles are published blaming homeless people for fires are the same.  Even as an analogy this doesn't work.
RE

Simple logic. Some people can't STAND the idea of the real answer....it contradicts some closely held belief. Therefore they create their own. As it can't be the fault of the fine rich folk involved, or the lousy efforts of local politicians in trying to mitgate in advance a massive and not unexpected conflagration, they want and need a story that sounds better.

Exactly the same as peak oilers who went hook, line and sinker for the accuracy of Hubbert's work. They can't talk about his work holding up anymore as his prognostication went one way, and both US and world oil went another. Something else needs to be thrown into the mix. I referred to it previously as the "but but but" routine...as excuses are the order of the day in such situations. Marion COULDN'T HAVE been wrong...therefore we fill in all the blanks for him. Like rich folk overbuilding in a known fire disaster zone are just victims of....can't be bad decisions and lousy politicians cutting fire fighting budgets...it must be the homeless! But but but!  Belief in a thing can be powerful, to the exclusion of the reality itself. Them homeless people's be da villians!

All quite logical. I seriously doubt that you missed the implied link...after all...Toyota didn't go bankrupt back in 2008...but with age and malaise and fewer limbs....memory is allowed to be more....selective.   

Quote from: comrade simba on Jan 18, 2025, 09:43 PMThe western world has a blind eye to the realities of all things Russian. Unexplored and untapped fields in Russian territory never entered the equation. Of course that's also sheepishly glossing over the whole fracking bonanza.

The unexplored and untapped in Russia has been assesed the same as the old and tired fields. And that is the real issue with Russia's production, new projects are just trying to keep those old tired fields alive because finding much new stuff has pesky without the help from the people who actually now how. And they want a CUT for helping! How dare the people that know more about producing oil than Russia ever has want a cut!

Chavez wasn't thrilled with the idea either. Look what good it did him.

Quote from: comrad simbaI spent a good decade (having fun with chickens goats and pigs and all things doom) sitting on the Watchtower of Doom until my asscheeks fell asleep and my kid needed better schools than podunk missouri had to offer. It's nice to know if our society degenerates into an agrarian backwater I'll always have skilz.

Your story is not dissimilar to that of others. Pops was a moderator on peakoil.com for quite some time. Bumped into him on reddit the other day...he gave up when it turned out that personal doom was approaching faster than anything or everything he had been harping on for the past quarter century.

Quote from: comrade simbaThe homeless are getting more numerous and crazy - what we've been doing seems to be a complete fail 

Truth.

Quote from: comrade simba on Jan 18, 2025, 09:43 PMmy kid needed better schools than podunk missouri had to offer.

Did you actually find someplace that had public schools that actually educate?

QuoteNon crazy people who find themselves jobless, penniless and homeless can also get a break from a hopeless situation and voluntarily sign up for a six month stint of farm labor with job placement assistance at end of term. Good option for women with kids needing some safety and a fresh start.

This actually already sorta exists in a NGO sorta way.  WWOOFers sign up to work on Organic Farms world-wide in return for room & board and a small monthly stipend.  The WWOOF website and organization matches up people looking to leave the rat race to work on a farm.  Not sure how many homeless organizations are aware of this and use it to place people.  Seems like it would be a good way to address at least part of the problem.

RE

tdos - I wasn't aware of the full extent of russian oil fields being factored into peak oil figures. I chuckle at how I steeped into amerocentricism I was prior to the back half of the 20-teens. I never counted on the yield of the frakfields keeping gas prices down either. What new offwhite swan wonders are in store that that remain hidden from lack of knowledge and/or confirmation bias? I also figure the Russians are fully capable of extracting their reserves without the help of the west. Russian shovels in the hands of North Koreans outta be able to dig plenty of oil wells, bwahahaha!
(Raff's marrying his high school sweetheart in Kansas City this November)

RE - Neosho, a small city of 12,000 in SW Missouri had a high school that had a bunch of old school teachers and a champion level debate team. Wife taught english/lit at the community college in that city. Our homestead was about thirty miles from there... sold the farm and moved to town since the local high school was football, pickup trucks, pregnant girls and meth.

Had to spend 6 years in industrial america - forklift, machine operator, line prole etc. Got the boy through Missouri U without student debt. I'm one of the few living the american dream... your kids do better than you. Granted, acid soaked hippie is a low bar :-D

Wwoofing is a cool deal for those who (operative word) want to work on organic farms, though those are in this day and age rather scarce. Coupling the pyrocene topic with more labor intensive agricultural practices I have been thinking about an observation - the price of no hormone grass-fed hamburger is within 10 or 15 percent of crunched up big ag dairy cow burger. Stringing electric fence daily for mob grazing pasture rotation would be an ideal solution for a half dozen guys on a large ranch. More acreage will be suited to well managed grasslands as climate shifts northward over the coming decades. The authentic "Cowboy" may once again be in demand.

I'm familiar with Neosho, I lived for a few years in the major metro of SW MO, Springfield.  I'm a tad surprised that you found the HS there to be good, since I found the ones in Springfield to be pretty awful.  Then again, I do know that a HS in the Ozarks is a mighty low bar and anything would be up from that.  My advice to everyone nowadays is to homeschool, especially if you're Doomsteading.  The internet provides all the resources you need, even if you don't have an extensive post HS education yourself.

I don't think we'll see a return of cowboys recruited from the ranks of the homeless, not so much due to the hard work involved as the fact cattle ranching whether organic or industrial farm style is outrageously water and energy intensive.  However, if they were trained in raising mealworms and grasshoppers or fishfarming Tilapia, there probably will be demand for people to do that labor.

RE