Quote from: RE on Feb 22, 2025, 05:22 AM

Quote from: monsta666 on Feb 21, 2025, 11:26 PMGiven what is happening now I can only wonder what people will do when they realize the economy is broken on a fundamental level...

By the time most of them realize it, it will be too late to do much more than roll over and die.

As you might suspect from my prior post on this topic, we both see this from the same POV.

I'm more interested in K-Dogs point of view, as you and Monsta appear to be generalizing about children, as opposed to personal experience.

I think Monsta's overall view, based on likely/unlikely is reaosnable, but the chosen probability expression is not definitive. I do believe things might be harder for the younger generations, and most of the speculation Monsta has done seems reasonable. K-Dog and I both mght offer a fine tuning of the concepts obviously, for better or worse.

Certainly a direct determining factor is that children are not raised in a vacuum, or by society at large. Parents themselves are a variable that can't be ignored, or discounted. They alone could make the difference between a normal, likely outcome as expressed by Monsta...or most certainly not. Quite the independent variable in the mix, and one with the ability to completely skew the results even with the more difficult conditions of today (however we might describe "difficult").

Quote from: REFor the most part, the lengthening time for a person to become independent of their parents is a direct result of the economic barriers presented by all the so-called "markers" of maturity.  Buying a house and raising kids is EXPENSIVE.  If you're reasonably intelligent and pragmatic, you won't do either one until you are pretty certain you'll be able to afford it long term.  How secure is your new career and potential for advancement.?  How stable is the general economy around you?

Or a direct result of parents who know well what you just wrote...and tip the scales in the favor of their children.

Quote from: REFinally, back on the economic end there's the Elephant in the Room.  Student Debt.  No prior generation has had to start out with such a huge hole to dig out of.

From personal experience I can't say this is an absolute. Like a farm boy without a pot to piss in decades ago could go to college any other way.

A potential Illuminati Prince undoubtly might think such things are unncessary....poor farm boys certainly didn't have anyone unrolling a college education without debt in front of them...even in "way back" times.

Quote from: TDoS on Feb 22, 2025, 01:17 PMA potential Illuminati Prince undoubtly might think such things are unncessary....

Your narrative of my childhood is a complete fiction.

My parents are both Depression era children of poor immigrants.  My father was the first person to go to college of anyone on both sides.  He went to Pace College in NYC on the GI Bill.  He got into the Executivee Training Program at Chase with 2 other guys.  When I was born, we lived in an attached house in the working class section of Queens.  Lower middle class salary at the time.

He made it to VP in the International Dept and was posted to Brazil.  On an American ssalary in the 60s you could hire poor domestic help from the favelas.  This was as close to Illuminati as I got in those years.  My parents split up while in Brazil, and my mom brought me back to NY where we lived in a 1 1 bedroom apt.  She had $500 to live on until the divorce got finalized.  My dad put the down payment on a house in Queens, which my mom struggled to pay off for 25 years as a clerical worker with a HSE  Education.

When college came round, my dad welshed on paying for it, so I had to work-study and take loans to supplement my scholarship.  Had I known he was going to do that, I would have gone to CUNY. not Columbia.  I was always broke.

There was no silver spoon for me growing up in Queens, I mowed lawns and delivered groceries on my bike for spending money. It was an hour and a half commute each way on the subway for me to go to Stuyvesant.  I couldn't join any after school clubs or activities because it took so long.  I had virtually no friends.  Basically, life sucked from age 10 to 16 for me.  When I finally got out to go to college, I went wild with drugs and girls.  School was easy for me, mostly I didn't go to class just crammed for tests.

Anyhow my life has nothing to do with the problems of the current generation, and neither does yours.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 22, 2025, 02:23 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Feb 22, 2025, 01:17 PMA potential Illuminati Prince undoubtly might think such things are unncessary....

Your narrative of my childhood is a complete fiction.

If memory serves, you were the one who mentioned being "groomed" by the Illuminati. I remembered the word. I believe it was of a reference to what happened sometime during your high school years?

Anything I know about your background in any way came from you personally.

Quote from: REHe made it to VP in the International Dept and was posted to Brazil.  On an American ssalary in the 60s you could hire poor domestic help from the favelas.  This was as close to Illuminati as I got in those years.  My parents split up while in Brazil, and my mom brought me back to NY where we lived in a 1 1 bedroom apt.  She had $500 to live on until the divorce got finalized.  My dad put the down payment on a house in Queens, which my mom struggled to pay off for 25 years as a clerical worker with a HSE  Education. When college came round, my dad welshed on paying for it, so I had to work-study and take loans to supplement my scholarship.  Had I known he was going to do that, I would have gone to CUNY. not Columbia.  I was always broke. There was no silver spoon for me growing up in Queens, I mowed lawns and delivered groceries on my bike for spending money. It was an hour and a half commute each way on the subway for me to go to Stuyvesant.  I couldn't join any after school clubs or activities because it took so long.  I had virtually no friends.  Basically, life sucked from age 10 to 16 for me.  When I finally got out to go to college, I went wild with drugs and girls.  School was easy for me, mostly I didn't go to class just crammed for tests.

Remember when we discussed my recent experience with suits? You mentioned your extensive experience with them as a young man, how your father had taken you with him to all sorts of meetings and whatnot where you learned about them and their characteristics and whatnot?

How did this work out in between mowing lawns and being broke and delivering groceries? 3 hours of commuting during the school week? The pirate radio? No time for after school activities....but heading out to watch big deals get done with dad happened enough to teach you all you needed to know about suits?

I always thought that sort of backed up your Illuminati grooming claim in your high school and college years, as opposed to now where it is like....where did you even find the TIME?

Quote from: REAnyhow my life has nothing to do with the problems of the current generation, and neither does yours.
RE

Oh, I agree to some extent, but I do have experience with the current generation up close and personal. You never spawned, so you are free and clear of it all. But the "problems" of the current generations aren't a given, as Monsta said they fall into the probability of "more likely than unlikely", and there is that parent factor. No, not just the rich versus poor angle, but the REAL parents versus another brand of helicopter ones, or those who didn't even want the kids in the first place. Hey, post Vietnam sex stopped being a dirty word and abortions were legal and it was all smoking reefer and whatever other hedonistic lifestyles came along. As did the consequences of free love and birth control and...I dunno....more idiot adults having kids?

Sure, things got more expensive in terms of raising them and whatnot (EVERYTHING got more expensive, not just kid raising), but I find it hard to discount the behavior of the prior generations raising them as part of the causal factor here.

The "grooming" you refer to was during the years in Brazil, playing chess against my dad's associates and state department apparatchiks and doing math tricks.  Later on I spent a couple of years being tested by psychologists and jumping through a variety of hoops.   All through those years at the various parties and picnics, I observed the behavior and dress of all the people involved, bankers, state dept, CIA and military.  I'm a good observer.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 22, 2025, 08:40 PMThe "grooming" you refer to was during the years in Brazil, playing chess against my dad's associates and state department apparatchiks and doing math tricks.  Later on I spent a couple of years being tested by psychologists and jumping through a variety of hoops.   All through those years at the various parties and picnics, I observed the behavior and dress of all the people involved, bankers, state dept, CIA and military.  I'm a good observer.

RE

I see. So your insight is related to the more social aspects of how the movers and shakers behave, as opposed to being in the  room when they are going at the details hammer and tongs? I'm trying to think of any muliti-corporate or multi-national deal where that end of the deal was happening in a social environment. Social environemnts tended to be before we went into combat in some conference room, or after the details were hammered out among the financial/technical/legal heads of departments and their CEO.

Obviously our experience was gained in different decades and even centuries, and from different perspectives.

For that time period, absolutely.  Then you add in my own time wearing the uniform working at Merrill and Drexel.  Didn't spend decades in the monkey suit, but the behaviors didn't change.  Same arrogance and self importance.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 23, 2025, 11:36 AMFor that time period, absolutely.  Then you add in my own time wearing the uniform working at Merrill and Drexel.  Didn't spend decades in the monkey suit, but the behaviors didn't change.  Same arrogance and self importance.
RE

So...arrogance and self importance and....bankruptcy? Any correlation there?

Quote from: TDoS on Feb 23, 2025, 12:52 PMSo...arrogance and self importance and....bankruptcy? Any correlation there?

Dunno if there is a correlation between the frequency of bankruptcy by dress code, but I suspect a correlation by magnitude.  Suits have higher incomes, so the bankruptcies would tend to be bigger.

RE

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 23, 2025, 07:19 PMI never see them explain how the bills are going to get paid once they do that though.

"Quitting working" is a little misleading.  What they are quitting are typical career type jobs.  They find the money to get by in a variety of ways.

1- "Gig" jobs:  These are easy to get and quit, then find another when you run short of funds. Like Uber or Instacart.  Low paying, but unmarried and often couch surfing they have low expenses.

2- Seasonal work:  Up here, they'll work pn a fishing boat in summer and plow snow in winter.  Or work in  the ourist trade or construction in summer, and snowbird to FL in winter.

3- "Side Hustles": Usually some internet scheme.  A Gen Z couple I met traded high priced Sneakers onver the net.  Or they have a Podcast or are Tattoo artists. etc.

4- Mooching:  If they run short, they take periodic donations from retired Boomer parent

5- Gambling-  Professional Poker playin is popular.  Making book on sportss betting also.

6- Illegal shit:  Drugs, Burglary, Prostitution, Bootlegging, Scalping, Gang Protection rackets etc

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 23, 2025, 03:19 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Feb 23, 2025, 12:52 PMSo...arrogance and self importance and....bankruptcy? Any correlation there?

Dunno if there is a correlation between the frequency of bankruptcy by dress code, but I suspect a correlation by magnitude.  Suits have higher incomes, so the bankruptcies would tend to be bigger.

RE

I said arrogance and self importance...I'm not much for confusing ones clothing with the quality of one's ability. Or lack thereof.

Given the opportunity I use exactly that confusion IRL to sort the wheat from the chaff. I love shorts, tennis shoes and t-shirts with some inane slogan or another on it should the opportunity present itself.

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 23, 2025, 07:19 PMThere are a hell of a lot of people with the ordinary jobs on utube saying theyre quitting and working is a waste of time, or explaining why everyone is doing so. I get that it barely makes ends meet, companies and conpany men who work for them are a nightmare. I never see them explain how the bills are going to get paid once they do that though. I guess they don't have a mortgage is half of the how.

The wife says Boob Tubers make mondo $$ off the advertising dollars they make doing and saying stupid things. She wants to be one of them, but can't think of enough stupid or inane things to say.

With rent being what it is nowadays, I'm not sure there is much difference in overall cost between mortgages and renting in my area. Repairs and whatnot sure, but when a rental worth $600K goes for $3000/month and a 30-yr mortgage on $600K is maybe $3200, seems like a wash.

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 25, 2025, 04:40 PMI just think too much of a big deal is being made of no longer affording the American Dream for the avg person. Its an artifact of the permanent position/golden handshake for a career at one company and trade unions making relatively unskilled labour into a new high standard of living. That went hand in hand with about a century of boom times and super abundant energy. There was no great stress and burden to buying your small 3x1 along with a big new car at least once a decade for no more than half of their pay cheque. People did this typically with a wife working part time or not at all.

I think post WWII America, its position, standing and non-infrastructure destruction was a one off.

And then, along the way, things changed. Because...things don't stay the same. The rest of the world rebuilt, and we helped them, and that generated the manufacturing economy that was quite the envy of the world for a long time.

And nowadays, things are different. Good, bad or indifferent, evolution is all about adapt or die.

Or, in modern America, the old geezers talk about the "good ol days" and younglings make fun of us, and there are plenty left out just as there are a few with far MORE than plenty for themselves.

Have no fear though....personal doom will get us all soon...and it'll be their problem. All us geezers here got ours. 

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 25, 2025, 04:40 PMPaying 250$ a week for a room in a 3 bedroom house, being a third of that 3000$/ month rent is not a giant weight on the shoulders of the avg single person on an avg income.

You're living in the past.  1 bedroom apts rent for $3000/mo.  Houses go $5000 and up.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 25, 2025, 08:53 PMYou're living in the past.  1 bedroom apts rent for $3000/mo.  Houses go $5000 and up.
RE

Major metro downtown 1 bedroom apartment rent maybe $1800/month. Single space garage parking included. Looked to be young professionals when examining them with .....family.....

1-2 bedroom, 1300 sq feet, included garage townhomes, $270k, mortgage at about $2200? Estimating slighty.

$3500/month mortgage $610k house, 3.5% down.

Most expensive non-coastal city in the US. All numbers on signed contracts within past 18 months or so, so reasonably current information.

I remember when Alaska was REAL expensive, back in the day, compared to every other place I ever looked at working. Last time I checked, it looked like the rest of the world just caught up.

TDoS doesn't do real estate. Don't like it, owning, renting, fixing, selling it, it always feels...dirty.

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 25, 2025, 10:03 PM

Quote from: RE on Feb 25, 2025, 08:53 PM

Quote from: Goldernen Oxernen on Feb 25, 2025, 04:40 PMPaying 250$ a week for a room in a 3 bedroom house, being a third of that 3000$/ month rent is not a giant weight on the shoulders of the avg single person on an avg income.

You're living in the past.  1 bedroom apts rent for $3000/mo.  Houses go $5000 and up.

RE

TDOS should squeeze his tennants more then.

The 1br has to be 'up to' rather than 'and up' though. Between a fold out bed and bunkbed, 3k$ is still ok for 3 people at 250$/week each.

I get your point of view.  You consider people capable of getting their shit together and making things work.  Lower housing expenses, find a roommate.  No problemo.  Simply get thy shit together.  Personally my housing situation is not a concern at this time.  And part of keeping my shit together is not messing up a good thing.  Making bank while I still can.

But not everyone can get their shit together.  Some people despite being considered human, need to have everything planned out for them.  Without a script they have no fucking clue.  Some people also have toxic personalities.  Finding a roommate is impossible for them.

It is a situation full of contradictions, where personal flaws can cause financial ruin.