Quote from: K-Dog on May 25, 2024, 12:42 PMIn the seventies middle class American men knew they were expected to get a job and move out of the parents house at age 18 because, parents had paid their bills long enough.

What bills in the 70's did these 18 year old American males have? Student loans for high school? Their paper route didn't make enough to borrow the parents car and put some gas in it? And for this....parents thought it was time to kick them out of the home?

I certainly wasn't accumulating bills my Mom had to pay at age 18, she kicked me out for normal reasons, otherwise known as my girlfriend.

QuoteTheir paper route didn't make enough to borrow the parents car and put some gas in it?

The suburb I graduated high school in was mixed working class, average and skilled proletariat.  I left paper routes behind when I was 14.  By then I was working under the table, my wages were written off as cat food in a pet shop, and I was making $1 an hour.  Much better than delivering newspapers in blizzard conditions at 12 years old at 6 am before school.  Six days a week.  The Minneapolis Star and Tribune was one of three routes I had when I delivered.  Two were small local papers.  I did morning papers.  The Sunday paper was part of the Evening Post edition of the tribune.  They had been separate and merged.

Bicycles got me around.  The burb was death without someway to get around.  My parents made it very clear that I was an expense, and I needed to take care of myself.

Quoteparents car ?

Not everyone had it so good.  There is a forgotten America which thought suffering built character and that unearned riches were the devils tool.  Sometimes suffering can build character.  Most of the time suffering just breaks people. 
Those who could have provided more often did not.  ✟  There was no arguing with their reasons.  No wiggle room at all.  'Back in the day' was not the nostalgic hedonistic paradise many assume it was.  There were far more 'rules' then than now.  Religion was a big deal.  The minority that could evade religion was small.

Quote from: K-Dog on Apr 14, 2025, 08:21 AMBicycles got me around.  The burb was death without someway to get around.  My parents made it very clear that I was an expense, and I needed to take care of myself.

How unfortunate. So what "expenses" were you incurring that would cause such a reaction? Eating?

Quote from: K-DogThere is a forgotten America which thought suffering built character and that unearned riches were the devils tool.  Sometimes suffering can build character.  Most of the time suffering just breaks people.

This one I get. I'll go with the character building side. But then I'm "old" American, as opposed to the pussyfication that appears to have overrun the country. Helicopter parents for christs sake....ruined the entire country.

Quote from: K-Dog'Back in the day' was not the nostalgic hedonistic paradise many assume it was.

Damn straight. Fucking groundhog when the venison ran out.