Quote from: TDoS on Sep 11, 2026, 01:54 PMthis is the usual nonsense geopolitical crap expected when idiots are in charge and their idiocy plays out in the field of global geopolitc events, said effects being correlated with the idiots stature in the politico sphere.

The fact that idiots are in charge itself is an indicator of collapse. 😀

RE

QuoteThe fact that idiots are in charge itself is an indicator of collapse.

I had that exact thought yesterday, about 10:30 in the morning.  With idiots in charge, it can't happen any other way.  With idiots in charge, there is no way out.

But who is the bigger idiot?  The idiot with the power, or the idiots who let him have the power.

Quote from: K-Dog on Sep 11, 2026, 02:27 PMYour math viewed in a mirror seems technically correct, but it is as morally hollow as an empty box.

Oh, now THIS is interesting.

Would you please elaborate for us your perspective on the morality of....MATH. 

We can start with the basics. Is 2+2=4, while technically correct, morally hollow? And if so...why? And if so, how do we tell why? Is 4-2=2 equally morally hollow because all the numbers, 2 two's and 1 four, involved regardless of order? Or is 4-2=2 NOT morally hollow because the sequence of the order matters?

Quote from: K-DogA society doesn't need mass extinction to collapse when nobody who matters cares enough to stop it.  Imagine you are hanging 100 feet in the air from a tree branch and it breaks.  Technically you are alive for 2.49 seconds.

Okay, technically you are alive for 2.49 seconds (I'll grant you the math skills to understand the linear acceleration involved to get the right answer on time (t) until impact across a given distance.

I am UNCLEAR as to the relationship between this example and morality however. Strikes me that morality isn't involved in either the branch breaking, nor the force of gravity accelerating someone to their doom. Yes....they are alive for a short period of time, technically, but as we all know, Divine Intervention has happened before...Jesus did come back from a worse fate you know.

Quote from: K-DogOn this website you are dead as soon as the branch breaks.  Get used to it.

I have no illusions about mortality. Morality however is entirely a different ball of wax.

Quote from: K-DogYou wait for bodies to pile up before acknowledging collapse.

Come on K-Dog, I didn't put out the definition of what a real collapse is, a disinterested 3rd party did. Just because someone HOPES for a thing to happen, doesn't mean it is, or will. Happens every NFL season. Every team NFL team has fans that claim they will win the Super Bowl. Some fans are correct. All the others wrong, that year. Apocalyticism exists because there is an idea that has come down through the ages.

I am only waiting for the definition to be met. It isn't HARD, technically more people have to pass away in a given year than are born. Low level "collapse", could be erased in another year or two. Easy-peasy, no morality involved. I am not a bad person for knowing what the BEGINNING of collapse is...I am just following the rules. Like those in math. No emotion, no pleasure or unhappiness in the math, no morality at all in math. It just...IS.

Apocalypticism is a REAL thing, and collapses have happened before, and are relatively rare. 

Quote from: K-DogWith that attitude I don't think it is possible for you to catch a train on time, any day in the week.

Attitude...please. It is math, logic and the dispassion of a professional scientist. I know when the train arrives, and am standing there waiting. I ride the Metro in DC quite effectively on any day of the week. Did it just last week.

Quote from: K-Dog on Sep 11, 2026, 02:46 PMBut who is the bigger idiot?  The idiot with the power, or the idiots who let him have the power.[/color]

Even more than let him, they GAVE him the power.

The answer to this question probably does have something to do with Human Nature.  You could ask the same thing about the idiot Germans who put Hitler in power.

Most Homo Saps are followers.  When times are tough they look to leaders who seem sure of themselves and who tell them things they want to hear.  Any critical thinking skills they might have go out the window even when they are bombarded with bald faced lies, as long as the lies are comforting.  Even when it becomes apparent they were wrong, rather than admit error they'll double down on the lies and false promises.

Collapse presents intractable problems for which there are no easy answers.  When the idiot leader steps  forward and presents his easy answer with complete conviction, the idiots eat it up.  Unfortunately for Homo Saps, as a group we're not much smarter than our close cousins the Bonobos.  Another truth about Human Nature is YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.



RE

Quote from: RE on Sep 11, 2026, 02:30 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Sep 11, 2026, 01:54 PMthis is the usual nonsense geopolitical crap expected when idiots are in charge and their idiocy plays out in the field of global geopolitc events, said effects being correlated with the idiots stature in the politico sphere.

The fact that idiots are in charge itself is an indicator of collapse. 😀

RE

Not according to the common definitions. Idiots in charge is common across many countries and cultures....and if their population wasn't decreasing, it was just run of the mill idiots in charge. There is no requirement of correlation.

Of course, anyone can claim collapse and pretend it is true. Look how that turned out for peak oilers.

Quote from: TDoS on Sep 11, 2026, 06:58 PMOf course, anyone can claim collapse and pretend it is true. Look how that turned out for peak oilers.

Turned out pretty well.  They weren't wrong, just a bit early.  Timelines are tricky when making Predictions, particularly about the future. 😁

RE

Quote from: RE on Sep 11, 2026, 06:56 PMThe answer to this question probably does have something to do with Human Nature.  You could ask the same thing about the idiot Germans who put Hitler in power.

Most Homo Saps are followers.  When times are tough they look to leaders who seem sure of themselves and who tell them things they want to hear.  Any critical thinking skills they might have go out the window even when they are bombarded with bald faced lies, as long as the lies are comforting.  Even when it becomes apparent they were wrong, rather than admit error they'll double down on the lies and false promises.

Bald faced lies like peak oil? Global cooling? I agree about the followers. But the lies are not required to be comforting. Apocalypticism isn't about "comfort", it is about folks believing the opposite. For little reasons, religious reasons, or no reasons at all. Other than someone told them we were entering the next Ice Age. Or peak oil was going to kill us all. In the last century. The lies AREN'T comforting, so we can't claim that comforting is particularly valuable. For some strange reason actually....what is the psychology of those seeking out Doom and then believing...while waiting...and waiting...and waiting some more.

Been doing it for a millenia. Probably not as common as those buying into hopium, but hopium does seem easier to fall for.

Quote from: RE on Sep 11, 2026, 07:03 PM

Quote from: TDoS on Sep 11, 2026, 06:58 PMOf course, anyone can claim collapse and pretend it is true. Look how that turned out for peak oilers.

Turned out pretty well.  They weren't wrong, just a bit early.

Just like collapse. The Sun is getting lighter every second, collapse is a given.

As far as peak oil, sure, a little early. The "how late are we" currently standing around 140 years since the first professional claimed it in 1886. But you are quite correct, peak oil is a given. Always was, Hubbert did the math, there is no question of it validity. I got banned for pointing it out in the same paragraph where I told folks they didn't know dick about why geology wasn't allowing their particular wet dream to happen in any particular decade.

Quote from: RETimelines are tricky when making Predictions, particularly about the future. 😁
RE

Apocalyptians have been proving this true for a millenia.

Chief orange idiot has us totally fucked.  Prices on everything are about to soar.




This 9-11 anniversary appears to be another nexus of long term implications.



And the price of diesel is already high.

Nice move by the Towel Heads!  The FSoA shot its Ballistic Wad in the attacks on Iran and have nothing left to take on the Houthis!  It's going to make it close to impossible for the Saudis to export more than a trickle of Oil with both straights blocked and theE-W pipeline shut down.  Which means they'll have to start shutting down wells when storage runs out.

The economy will be bonkers by November.

RE

They shut down the pipeline for safety reasons.  Which on the FM radio you might hear between heating and cooling commercials.  And I do understand.  When there are holes in the pipeline and the pumps are burned up, keeping the pipeline open would be unsafe.  Safety reasons, shut the puppy down.

Quote from: RE on Sep 11, 2026, 11:26 PMThe economy will be bonkers by November.

RE

Well, considering the local opinion of the Orange One, wouldn't this be a good thing at a small level? With any luck, Congress and Senate get flipped and then the entire country can spend 2 years in a fit of "ain't nuttin' gonna get done". With all kinds of idiot investigations of everything. Sounds like exactly the kind of gridlock that is better than governing.

Unfortunately, not getting anything done while the wars in Europe and MENA continue to escalate isn't a very good option either.  Very reminiscent of the Isolationist period at the beginning of WWII when the war in Europe had begun but the FSoA was staying out of it.

With all the rest of the nonsense ongoing with the AI Bubble, the debt and Interest rates and inflation, the CONgress get mired in Impeachment hearings will make it impossible to do anything that might put the brakes on the chaos.

Hard to predict how it will all workout, but it won't end well.

RE

QuoteVery reminiscent of the Isolationist period at the beginning of WWII

Key difference being is that America started the current wars.  Both of them.  Not so the last time.  America starting the current wars is a statement that is sure to get a rise from the ignorant.

Sorry to bother them.  Truly reminiscent would be to have someone use a gold plated gun in a bunker.



This will not end well. 

To keep Americans from being sent over there could take a damn rebellion.  The next move will be for Pox News to sell the heartland on their patriotic duty to restore order and peace to the world.  America's prosperity is at risk.  Only by going to Iran and kicking Persian butt can inflation come down.

It is a hard sell, but will America buy it?

They probably will.  Bicameral cognition got him elected after all, and now his problem is America's problem. 

The voices of the gods say rise up, the homeland could be next.  Duty calls.  That he is the source of all the trouble is irrelevant.

They will use the broken pipe and the dear oil to say we must fight the Persians to keep the bread cheap and the ships moving.

Quote from: RE on Sep 12, 2026, 05:05 PMUnfortunately, not getting anything done while the wars in Europe and MENA continue to escalate isn't a very good option either.

Of course. Such is American politics. Not getting things done afflicts both the Democans and Republicrats. Folks thinking there is much of a difference between them just aren't familiar with how the American political oligarchy system works.

Quote from: REWith all the rest of the nonsense ongoing with the AI Bubble, the debt and Interest rates and inflation, the CONgress get mired in Impeachment hearings will make it impossible to do anything that might put the brakes on the chaos.

Well, change requires a beginning. Getting the Orange One out of the system is step 1.

Quote from: REHard to predict how it will all workout, but it won't end well.
RE

"Well" is a relative term. "Won't end well" is like a mantra in doomer-sphere. The Sun is getting lighter.... 4 million tons per second....of course there is no "ending well". I suppose what would be better, and far more accurate, would be, "...and this won't end well...even though it ended okay all those other tiems, THIS time..we MEAN it!"