Quote from: comrade simba on Feb 06, 2025, 01:40 PMAs per Trump dis Trump dat, the only significance is Trumpi has a wrecking ball aimed at D.C. that (one hopes) will take down the hard power of 'murica as well as the soft power way faster than another couple of terms we would have gotten with The Cackler and her successor.

I don't think his objective is to take down the power of the Federal Goobermint, rather it is to extend it and bring it fully under the control of the Executive branch.  He aspires to run the FSoA with the same level of control that Putin has over Mother Russia.

RE

QuoteHe aspires to run the FSoA with the same level of control that Putin has over Mother Russia.

Trump certainly has his own oligarchs,  Had some serious Guy Fox  rigging had gone on below the inauguration room we would be living in a different world.  They were all there.  Sort of, but maybe not so different a world.  Material conditions determine our destiny.  We blame the buffoons, but the real problem be us, and what we collectively do and think.  Joe six pack and his half-rack brain.

In the Diner we can disagree on a lot of things.  But one thing that unites us all is a desire to have a front row seat to the doom show.

Trump certainly has given us that.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 06, 2025, 08:43 PMWe blame the buffoons, but the real problem be us, and what we collectively do and think.  Joe six pack and his half-rack brain.

I've never been a fan of blaming the collective "us".  "We" are to blame, because we put the idiots in positions of power.  We are to blame for climate change, because we all drive carz and forget to turn off the lights when we leave the room.  Wars are our fault because we go out on the battlefield and shoot people we don't know or fly drones with a joystick and bomb people half a world away.  The debt is our fault because we spend more than we earn.  And so forth and so on.  Blaming everyone is blaming no one.  In this respect, blame isn't a useful concept to define the situation.

As a social creature, homo sap isn't very smart.  Like the rate determining step in a chemical reaction, society is only as smart as it's stupidest people.  In a Democracy, stupid always wins because the stupid always have the most voters.  Can you blame people for being stupid?  Whether they were just born stupid or poorly educated, is the fact they ended up stupid really their fault?  Looking at the extreme case, do you blame a retard for being retarded?

Perhaps rather than blaming, framing the issue in terms of RESPONSIBILITY is a better way to look at it?  "With great power comes great responsibility."  Conversely, with little or no power comes little or no responsibility.  From this POV, I am not responsible at all for the shit show ongoing in the world.  The Donald and Elon can be held responsible for a lot of it though.  By holding them responsible, they can be made to answer for their crimes.  Accountability is essential.  The question is, with no power, how do we hold them accountable?

RE

QuoteThe question is, with no power, how do we hold them accountable?

have you ever heard the saying "Workers of the world unite."

Organize, but since everyone is busy being a class traitor it is not going to happen.

QuoteI've never been a fan of blaming the collective "us".

Yes, but that does not apply here.  In this situation people voted for a specific shithead, and the country totally deserves any pain that comes from that collective bad decision.  Your think too broadly.  People chose to vote for Trump knowing he was going to fuck over a lot of people.  Just not them, or so they thought.  Now that the Trump fuckification is back I will have no sympathy for the pain.

In Seattle we had the CHOP and massive street protest.  BLM was ripping the country apart, and it all stopped when Trump was voted out.  People forgot how bad it was four years ago.  Now there will be remembering.

Stupid is as stupid did.

Personally, I could not vote for genocide since Democratic dumfucks decided making voters happy was no longer a thing.  Making $$$ happy is.  Democrats became a democracy of wealth, and I won't vote for them.

Trump triggered trouble in Portland, how soon we forget:




Trump trouble will return.  Naked Athena will have to get naked again.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 07, 2025, 05:02 AM

QuoteThe question is, with no power, how do we hold them accountable?

have you ever heard the saying "Workers of the world unite."

Sure, but since most of them are stupid, when they unite they just get one big stupid.

Quote from: Kdog

QuoteI've never been a fan of blaming the collective "us".

Yes, but that does not apply here.  In this situation people voted for a specific shithead, and the country totally deserves any pain that comes from that collective bad decision.  Your think too broadly.  People chose to vote for Trump knowing he was going to fuck over a lot of people.  Just not them, or so they thought.  Now that the Trump fuckification is back I will have no sympathy for the pain.

The country may deserve the pain, but the people who live in the country who didn't vote for him don't deserve it.  How do you punish the country without punishing the innocent people living here?  If you punish the innocent along with the guilty, that's not justice.

RE

Quote from: RE on Feb 07, 2025, 09:17 AM

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 07, 2025, 05:02 AMhave you ever heard the saying "Workers of the world unite."

Sure, but since most of them are stupid, when they unite they just get one big stupid.

Lenin's concept of the vanguard party refers to a highly organized and disciplined group of revolutionary leaders from the working class who guide and educate the proletariat towards achieving a socialist revolution. This party is seen as essential for leading the working class in overthrowing the existing capitalist system and establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat.

QuoteHow do you punish the country without punishing the innocent people living here?

I'm not punishing anybody.  But if lightning bolts start vaporizing certain people I'm sayin 'damn right'.  And you are exactly the same way with your posting of your guillotine pics.

Trump was voted in by a majority of people, and any and all of those who voted for him are fine with injustice and imperialism.  Not wanting innocents to suffer is a given.  I should not have to explain.  No head chopping of innocents.

Perhaps very dim bulbs who voted for Trump are not fine with injustice and imperialism.  But for that to be so they would have to be so dim as to not know what injustice and imperialism is.  That is not very many people.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 07, 2025, 12:56 PMLenin's concept of the vanguard party refers to a highly organized and disciplined group of revolutionary leaders from the working class who guide and educate the proletariat towards achieving a socialist revolution. This party is seen as essential for leading the working class in overthrowing the existing capitalist system and establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Well, I'm all for an organized and disciplined cadre of Leaders to point the followers in the working class in the right direction, but said charismatic and intelligent working class heroes have yet to emerge.  Hard to see how they will emerge with the cacophony of voices pitching ideas out on Social Media.  Not to mention. how do you get the followers to follow when they are so easily fooled by the bullshit fed them bywannabee dictators like Trump?

QuoteI'm not punishing anybody.

Yes, you are.  You said Amerika DESERVES being fucked by Trump.  That's the punishment you say is deserving.  You may not be dishing it out, but you're giving it the thumbs up.  Except I live here, I'm a citizen and I DON'T deserve it.

RE

As a materialist my use of 'DESERVES' is no more than an expression of thoughts, with full awareness that my thoughts are only thoughts.  I express a logical consistency, an ideal consistency, crafted in an idealism that is not a consistency related to the real world.

Thanks for the clarification.  Unfortunately, here in the real world, a whole lotta USAID workers who didn't vote for Trump are currently trying to figure out how they'll pay the bills and what job 10 years experience dishing out food in Somalia qualifies them for.  They're the main folks being punished here.

RE

@RE: In K-Dog's defense as an outsider looking in it is becoming harder to be sympathetic with the average American. And I will try and explain why. The issue here is the Americans didn't vote for Trump once but did so on TWO occasions. Now doing it once is somewhat understandable as sometimes in the heat of the moment we can make irrational decisions. I have done or made stupid decisions so yes it is forgivable to make a poor decisions however the fact people have voted him in twice indicates there is some deeper issue at play here.

You also have to consider that Trump telegraphed a lot of his moves before his elections. He was very open about his desires to implement tariffs, cut off aid, massively reduce government spending and breed a general environment of hate and contempt for others and the institutions that define people and the nation. Many people voted for him on that platform so if things go south they are also culpable because they supported such actions. 

As they say, you sleep on the bed you make. Now I do get it, this sucks for the people who voted against and even actively fought hard against the Trump re-election as those people suffer the same loss of reputation as the one that gets suckered in. In this instance and especially those outside America everyone will look at you with a lower regard.

I can relate to this because the UK's standing went down a notch when they voted for Brexit. Many of the people in Europe thought we were foolish and all Brits were tarnished with the same brush even though a good chunk voted against Brexit. However in history people tend only to remember the winners and in this instance the winners were the people who voted for Trump (or in the case of Brexit voted for Brexit).

You can argue this is not fair but this is the nature on how people make their judgements and could partly explain why this belief that "it is all Americans fault" comes from. To put this more simply, what I think this argument boils down to (correct me if I am wrong K-Dog) is that while the Trump's of this world are the ones who commit the crimes their mandate comes from a large base of support that enables them to allow the status quo to continue.

The biggest grey area in this kinda debate is how informed are the public? On many occasions the public are genuinely deceived so it hard to blame them for their voting patterns but in the case of today, it is harder to say you are innocent when clear facts against Trump (or any other hare brained ideology) are presented and you choose to ignore reality and give your vote to the local populist who makes you feel better.

Quote from: monsta666 on Feb 08, 2025, 12:37 AM@RE: In K-Dog's defense as an outsider looking in it is becoming harder to be sympathetic with the average American.

I don't have sympathy for the average Amerikan J6P who voted for Trump.  I have sympathy for the MAJORITY of average Amerikan J6Ps who DID NOT vote for him.  Adding in the ones who didn't vote at all, probably 65-70% of all Amerikans didn't vote for him.  I'm one of those people, and I don't like being blamed for Trump as though this is my responsibility just because I hold an Amerikan passport.  That is totally unfair and unjustified.

Thus the reason I don't approve of collectivizing guilt in this case.  If you're going to make a generalization like this, at minimum a majority of the people should have commtted the offense, preferably an overwhelming majority.  I'm OK with collectivizations like Eat the Rich because the vast majority deserve to be eaten. 

RE

QuoteWhile the Trump's of this world are the ones who commit the crimes their mandate comes from a large base of support that enables them to allow the status quo to continue.

Yes, the average American has culpability (nobody here is average).  When Palestinians are being hunted from helicopters to clean out the place for Trump Atlantic City 2.0 Kushner hotels, the Average American has culpability.

When I was young, I would contemplate what the 'ugly American' meant.  I feel like I was the only one who contemplated.

Has Trump said where the Palestinians are supposed to go?  Oh, I forgot.  Trump gives no fucks.

Status quo in America means 'all for me' and 'fuck you'.

Quoteethnic cleansing
noun
Synonyms of ethnic cleansing

: the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity

In America this is generally considered a good thing.  The Palestine situation proves it.  The Trump tribe is the ugliest of all ugly Americans.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 08, 2025, 04:59 AMStatus quo in America means 'all for me' and 'fuck you'.

Pretty much. For example, in America, when people have EARNED their wealth through hard work, creativity, the ability to build ideas into companies and real estate holdings and bank account balances, they damn well should be allowed to keep it! Be it the success or K-Dog or Elon, these people had what it took in 'MURIKA! and it make perfect sense that they don't have to share with others...beyond whatever government tax agents require of them anyway.

The one given in this equation is that those who have achieved these lofty stations in life sure as shooting aren't about to have their wealth distibuted to the unwashed masses and their unaccomplished efforts and abilities just so they can be sure of 3 hots and cot at the end of the day! That wouldn't be 'MURICAN!, but..something else...more like a system where those who work hard are brought low in order to provide those hhots and a cot for Joe Dope Smoker or BLM activist, or others shunned by the current 'MERICA! system.

Quote from: K-Dog on Feb 08, 2025, 04:59 AMHas Trump said where the Palestinians are supposed to go?

Yah.  He wants Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia to take them.  None of them are the least bit interested in importing the problems Gaza has.  Trump will likely try to convince them by dishing out more sanctions if they continue to refuse.

Il Duce got his RE philosophy from his dad the slumlord.  He bought old buildings and let them deteriorate until they became unlivable, often condemned by the city.  Residents were forced to move out or live in unsanitary conditions.  Once he got the renters out, the buildings were renovated, neighborhoods were gentrified and sold off as condos to wealthy buyers.  If it didn't happen fast enogh naturally, he would infest the buildings with vermin on purpose.  The Israelis have done the job of making Gaza unlivable, andd nobody will rebuild it to house poor Palestinians.  The Donald sees great Beaachfront property for condos, hotels  and casinos he can build if he gets the Palestinians out and Ammerika take owneership of Gaza.  The Palestinian people don't fit into this plan.

The thing is, Palestine was ALREADY a colonial possession of the Brits.  The Brits unloaded it because the Palestinians couldn't stand them, any more than the Indians could.  At  the end of WWII, they saw it as a way to solve another problem, that of the displaced European Jews Hitler didn't manage to gas.  Nobody wanted the Jews then, anymore than they want the Palestinians today.  So they dumped them all in Paalestine and artificial lines were drawn so Jews were in the majority in a tiny sliver of land.  They forced out Palestinians in the 1948 war.

Trump's wet dream of a Gaza Riviera for Billionaires to dock their super yachts won't happen short of genocide of the Palestinians.  If they are forced out into concentration camps in the neighboring countries, they will continue the terrorism from those locations as bases of operations.  Trump hotels on the Gaza Riviera will be bombed daily.  Then instead of Israeli drones bombing the camps, he'll have to send Amerikan drones.  The surrounding countries know this, thus they will not accept the refugees except under extreme duress.

What you have down there in all the Muslim countries is a permanent underclass under an existential threat.  They have nothing left to lose, so they will continue terrorism from any location they are stuffed into.  Thus the only solution is the same one Hitler came up with, the FINAL SOLUTION.  Only by eradicating them from existence can Trump build Casinos on the Gaza Riviera.  He's working his way up to it, just as Hitler did with the Jews.  At first he just tried to deport them, but while other countries would accept Jews who had money. they wouldn't take the millions who were poor.  That's when Hitler went into bizness with Bayer AG to exterminate the Jews.  It's the exact same playbook.

RE

Quote from: comrade simba on Feb 08, 2025, 11:24 AMThe huge juicy depopulated middle part of what will be "formerly known as 'Ukraine'" would be a good place for the Palestinians. Jews already have an oblast in Russia, might as well give one to the Palestinians.
Turn the whole of Israel into a  nature preserve.

I seriously doubt the Ruskies, Hungarians, Poles or anyone else surrounding Ukraine wants a few million Muslims occupying some of the best farmland in Europe. not to mention the Ukrainians still living there.  That suggestion doesn't even fly as sarcasm.

RE